21mm lenses

[Cobram]

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15 hours ago, pgk said:

Many manufacturers build extremely good lenses. My experience has been that Leica lenses last well, can be repaired for decades and even very old lenses supply their users with great images. You can't value this easily, and its very difficult for another manufacturer (and Chineses manufacturers are already producing lenses which perform very well) to produce items which are guaranteed to have such characteristics. History suggests that simply producing good or even great lenses isn't enough to ensure their longevity or appreciation.

I share the same opinion about Leica lenses.

Sadly not the same case with digital Leica cameras...

[Ertos]

Here is my experience with the Voigtlander 21mm f1.4: https://www.erwinhartenbergphoto.com/post/wide-angle-wonder-how-i-ended-up-with-a-voigtlander-21-mm-f1-4-nokton-asph-vm

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[Ertos]

There was an ask for a 1.4 shot so here it is:

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[Cobram]

Dear Ertos,

Thank you very much for your review. 

This Nokton 21 seems a very very good alternative to both Leicas: Lux 21 and SA 21. 

I will keep using my CV 21 f4 color skopar but Nokton is a very tempting upgrade option. 

I have been too afraid how I will handle 21mm wide lens... that's why I ended with Skopar. Anyway I can only recommend it. 

IMHO Voigtlander proved as a respectable alternative to Leica lenses.

[OR120]

ME 240 w/voigt 21 1.8 (tighter crop)

Inside Out

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Edited August 19, 2020 by OR120
sp

[OR120]

me 240 w/ 21 f1/8 voigt (crop)

Needs More Green

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Edited August 19, 2020 by OR120

[OR120]

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me 240 w/21 f1/8 voigt (crop)

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[jdlaing]

1 hour ago, OR120 said:

me 240 w/21 f1/8 voigt (crop)

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Nice one. Where was that taken?

[OR120]

northern VA - my old stomping grounds

Edited August 20, 2020 by OR120

[Dr No]

On 8/12/2020 at 8:42 AM, 250swb said:

I like the idea that if I wait long enough a CV lens will have depreciated so much it costs nothing, but if I buy a Leica lens it will eventually be worth more than a brand new one. is that how it works? You see that is what happens if you use generalisations. Nothing is absolute and like the stock market it can look very different day to day. You base Leica lens appreciation presumably on desirability, but if the new Chinese manufacturers continue on their current trajectory how many people will think a very tiny marginal gain (if any) for Leica image quality is worth thousands of dollars? Similarly Leica could themselves devalue the whole of the M lens range by one day dropping the M mount. So which side of the depreciation/appreciation debate is going to be left with an over valued investment portfolio or lenses that daren't be used?

Casio didn't stop people being Rolex. Honda didn't stop people buying Ferrari. Huawei didn't stop people buying iPhones. Top Shop didn't stop people buying Prada. Sony didn't stop people buying Leica and neither did Canon or Nikon several decades ago.

A 60 year old Mercedes that sells for $500k does so for a reason. And so does a $500k 50 year old Toyota 2000GT for that matter.

The BMW Z4 is the same car as a Toyota Supra and yet people prefer one over the other even with a hefty price difference.

There is no way that peoples will stop buying Leica for Chinese manufactured cheap knock offs or even good equivalents. That would have already happened long ago if it were going to. Human beings just don't work like that in this world.

Even if Leica goes broke, the cost of lenses and bodies will rocket even more.  If people stop buying less Leica lenses it will just make the real things more scarce and the value go up.

If anything all that will happen is Chinese will hike their prices up, just like the Japanese did all those years ago, Leica will hike theirs up even more and India will start making cheap TTArtisan knock offs that are better and half the cost.

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Dr No

[250swb]

2 hours ago, Dr No said:

 

There is no way that peoples will stop buying Leica for Chinese manufactured cheap knock offs or even good equivalents. That would have already happened long ago if it were going to. Human beings just don't work like that in this world.

 

"That would have already happened long ago...."  Are you a millennial and have a typically narrow view of history? How long do you imagine the Chinese have been making lenses that can potentially compete with Leica? If for you two or three years is 'long ago' I guess my question is answered.

[bags27]

On 6/19/2020 at 1:36 PM, luisrq said:

Thanks for your useful information

In my opinion this is the best lens 21mm made for Leica, I've had the 21mm f4 Súper Angulon R, it was fantastic. I've never tested the new Súper Elmar 21 f3,4 and I don't know how it compares to the Súper Angulon. 

Have you used either Super Angulon (M f/3.4 or R f/4) on an M10 or other digital M? I'd be eager to hear your further thoughts. Thanks.

[Dr No]

4 hours ago, 250swb said:

"That would have already happened long ago...."  Are you a millennial and have a typically narrow view of history? How long do you imagine the Chinese have been making lenses that can potentially compete with Leica? If for you two or three years is 'long ago' I guess my question is answered.

Heavens no, it seems you might do though.

That would have happened long ago when Japanese lenses were cheap, when Nikon and Canon become more popular that Leica. Come on, catch up will you.

[jaapv]

Members are reminded that this thread is about 21 mm lenses, not about personal animosities. Until now moderators have restricted themselves to just deleting posts. Please step back, take a breath, and regain a sense of proportion. If needed use the ignore list.

[rpsawin]

On 6/18/2020 at 2:55 PM, fatihayoglu said:

Very happy with my Zeiss 21 ZM 2.8, I highly recommended that one.

I am pleased to hear that. After doing some online research about 21mm lenses I purchased a mint copy of this lens yesterday and I should receive it next week. I am looking forward testing it out.

[shirubadanieru]

Just got a Super Angulon 21mm f4 from 1958 to shoot it on film and on the Monochrom. Any long term users here? Would love to hear your thoughts. 
Will post some shots once I get the chance to go shoot with it. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by shirubadanieru

[shirubadanieru]

As promised, here are some shots with the Super Angulon 21mm f4 wide open. To be honest, this lens is much sharper than I was expecting. On the opposite side, you definitely don’t want to shoot it against direct sunlight as it will flare and lose contrast abruptly. 

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[rpsawin]

On 6/18/2020 at 2:55 PM, fatihayoglu said:

Very happy with my Zeiss 21 ZM 2.8, I highly recommended that one.

If you don't mind I would like some information from you about this lens. I just received mine and am looking forward to doing some test shots. I'm shooting with a M (tip 262). When shooting the ZM 21/2.8 on your M10 do you apply any of the lens listed in the Lens Detection|Manual section of the menu?

Thanks in advance.

[luigi bertolotti]

On 8/20/2020 at 8:30 PM, bags27 said:

Have you used either Super Angulon (M f/3.4 or R f/4) on an M10 or other digital M? I'd be eager to hear your further thoughts. Thanks.

I have used for many years the Super Angulon 3,4 on my various M bodies (film and digital) : wasn't for its annoying limitation on digitals (wrong metering) probably I hadn't bought my current 21 (Elmarit asph) : all in all it's not so much better... it has a little less vignetting but I have the feel that the overall contrast (in color) of the SA is even more pleasant : it's really a superb 21 still today imho (no expereince with Zeiss, though) 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by luigi bertolotti

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[ckuwajima]

On 8/20/2020 at 3:30 PM, bags27 said:

Have you used either Super Angulon (M f/3.4 or R f/4) on an M10 or other digital M? I'd be eager to hear your further thoughts. Thanks.

I love SA 3.4 with my M4. Not so much with MP because it can't meter, but results are superb on any film.

I do not use with M10, because I do not like to use EVF, therefore has the same metering problem as with MP. But more important, it requires some post-processing to remove the magenta casting at the borders of the frame. I use WATE with the M10 instead.