Leicarumours list a bunch of Leica lenses no longer on sale

[otto.f]

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33 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

The 2007 coded Elmar-50 I bought new, was the worst made Leica lens I have ever had. Its barrel was so loose that it would drop out under gravity and it did not lock into place rigidly. There were next to no detents perceptible on the aperture ring and the focus ring felt sloppy as well. I left it at Solms during a visit for warranty attention and it came back unchanged (and at that time when their service department was not good, I suspect it had not been touched). I sold it. In contrast my earlier 1961 Elmar-M 50/2.8 is beautifully made. Its barrel slides in and out like a hydraulic piston, it locks totally rigidly into position and is a pleasure to use. It may not be quite as good optically as the later sloppy version but as I use it wholly on film (currently sitting on my M4-P), it is quite good enough. If I ever  needed more resolution, I can always mount my 50mm/f2 ZM Planar, which a couple of Leica lens gurus have said is very close to being as good as the APO-Summicron. 

Wilson

 

That can perfectly be so. My first Elmar-M was very bad and had no real focus plane. My second one is astounding, even for landscape. My 60’s Elmar 50 was a disaster,  but that was due to a snowflake formed fungus or break of coating

Edited March 15, 2020 by otto.f

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[Knipsknecht]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb BJohn:

I just received a Summilux-M 24 which was made in 2020. So I am not quite sure whether this news is actually true...!

Although I didn‘t find any official press statement on the Leica website, I found this pretty clear statement in a text offering a new Summilux 24mm on the site of Meister Camera, Hamburg:

Zitat

Als Leica am 10. März 2020 das Produktionsende des Summilux-M 1,4/24mm ASPH. bekannt gab ging damit das erste hochlichtstarke Super-Weitwinkelobjektiv der Leica M-Baureihe in den Ruhestand.
Das von 2008 bis 2020 in ungefähr 3.500 bis 4.500 Exemplaren gefertige Objektiv ist eine absolute Ausnahmeoptik und der Hauptanwendungsbereich ist in der available-light und Reportage Photographie angesiedelt.

In English it reads something like this:

Zitat

When Leica announced on the 10th of March 2020 the end of production of the Summilux-M 1,4/24mm ASPH, the first high-brightness super wide-angle lens of the Leica M series went into retirement.

The lens, which was manufactured in approximately 3,500 to 4,500 copies from 2008 to 2020, is an absolute exceptional lens and the main area of application is located in available-light and reportage photography.

So, to a certain degree the rumor seems to be true.

Here is the original website: https://www.meister-camera.com/de/gebraucht/9561/leica-summilux-m-1424mm-asph

Edited March 15, 2020 by Knipsknecht

[Pyrogallol]

Never bought a new Leica lens and I’ve got too many. The newest I have is from the 90’s (50mm Summicron v4) and the oldest from 1930 (50mm Elmar nickel pre-infinity catch).

so I don’t miss some more models going out of production.

[willeica]

23 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

As you can see from my OP, I too was a dubious about the Leicarumours post. Some I sort of understand, the Summarits for example, where I bought a 75/2.5 the week they came out but have never warmed to it. It might just become a collectors' item😗

 

I took Dr Kaufmann's photo with a copy of this lens and he asked me what lens I had used. When I told him, he said it was a wonderful lens. It had, however, been back to Solms for a paid repair to the aperture ring when it was just out of warranty. Leica aperture rings were going through a bad period at that time.

I also told Dr Kaufmann that I had use a Leica Elmar from 1926 the previous week. He said that Leica did not make any money out of that, which was not strictly true as I had bought the camera and lens from Westlicht after the takeover by Leica AG.

20 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

Frankly this rumor looks odd to me, but practically  can't say that touches me so much... of all my Leica lenses (dozens...) the only I bought brand new is the Summarit 75 2,5  (just as a hommage to my first digital camera... M8) , not counting the CV 15 III.  18 is a focal I think time to time...and that's all... 

 

Like you Luigi, I have dozens of Leica lenses, mainly early collectors' items, and I have only bought about 4 or 5 of them new. As a collector, the fact that a lens is no longer in production adds to the interest of actually finding one. And things like 6 bit coding have no interest for me. I would never add 6 bit coding to any lens that does not already have it. Some of the best Leica items are no longer made, which all adds to the interest for me.

William

[pippy]

On 3/14/2020 at 3:24 PM, wlaidlaw said:

......the Summarits for example, where I bought a 75/2.5 the week they came out but have never warmed to it. It might just become a collectors' item😗......

That's an interesting observation, Wilson.

Might I ask what it was / is about the lens which doesn't appeal to you? I'm aware that they were not to everyone's taste - Mr. Rockwell being particularly scathing in his assessment - and, in particular, the 'rubber-band' focus ring put many people off. All that notwithstanding I took a chance on picking one up (used but mint-in-box) and IMO, purely considered on its optical merits, it both renders and functions beautifully.

Philip.

Edited March 15, 2020 by pippy

[lct]

37 minutes ago, pippy said:

Mr. Rockwell being particularly scathing in his assessment - and, in particular, the 'rubber-band' focus ring put many people off.

What would Mr. Rockwell say about the Apo-Telyt 280/4 and other R lenses with the same rubber band then . I wish my Summarit-M 35/2.5 (lose focus and aperture rings), 50/2.5 (lose focus ring) and 75/2.5 (broken aperture ring) had the same quality though. My ZM and CV lenses look better made from this viewpoint.

[Jeff S]

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If loose aperture rings are a sign of poor quality, count many if not most of the recent M lens iterations, including expensive ones like the 50 APO M (standard version). 

The Summarits have been highly praised by many here, especially the 35 and 75.  Puts rated the 35 comparable to the 35 Summicron ASPH, with less propensity to flare or focus shift. Unfortunately, the line seems to have a bit of a sigma in otherwise more pricey Leica-world.

Jeff

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, Knipsknecht said:

Although I didn‘t find any official press statement on the Leica website, I found this pretty clear statement in a text offering a new Summilux 24mm on the site of Meister Camera, Hamburg:

In English it reads something like this:

So, to a certain degree the rumor seems to be true.

Here is the original website: https://www.meister-camera.com/de/gebraucht/9561/leica-summilux-m-1424mm-asph

Thank you for the link. That text is only displayed for the used lens (URL contains "gebraucht" -> "used"). The page for the new lens is: https://www.meister-camera.com/de/produkt/5562/leica-summilux-m-1424mm-asph and contains nothing about the production stop. Strange.

The Summilux 24mm 1.4 is a favorite lens of Alan Schaller. I always wondered how well it does, might get one just in case if the rumor turns out to be true.

 

[pippy]

32 minutes ago, lct said:

What would Mr. Rockwell say about the Apo-Telyt 280/4 and other R lenses with the same rubber band then . I wish my Summarit-M 35/2.5 (lose focus and aperture rings), 50/2.5 (lose focus ring) and 75/2.5 (broken aperture ring) had the same quality though. My ZM and CV lenses look better made from this viewpoint.

Well, I think we all find Mr. Rockwell's reviews entertaining whilst not neccessarily agreeing with everything he likes / dislikes.

Thanks for the comments about the others. Surprised to read about the issues you have experienced with no fewer than three different Summarits. Perhaps their poor reputation as regards their lack of solidity is well-deserved? Was there a more beefed-up construction approach for the f2.4 re-design, do you know?

My own 75mm f2.5 was bought essentially unused so although it's hardly 'new' it's possibly also far too early (I hope!) to show signs of inherent flimsyness and it has enjoyed very considerate treatment since it was acquired. As far as long-term issues are concerned, OTOH, I'm sure I will discover 'in the fullness of time'.

Thanks for giving me something to ponder. Being more aware of what might happen is a help in that I might be even more careful than normal...

Phiilp.

[lct]

30 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

If loose aperture rings are a sign of poor quality, count many if not most of the recent M lens iterations, including expensive ones like the 50 APO M (standard version).

The aperture ring of my 50/2 apo is not that loose but i do agree that this can be a sign of poor quality or QC. We were discussing about Mr Rockwell above and i seem to recall that he criticised another affordable lens for the same kind of reason, the Hexanon 50/2. I have one in front of me together with my Summarit 50/2.5 and the Hexanon looks solid as a tank by comparison. This does not alter the optical quality of the Summarits of course although the 50/2.5 can do some very nasty flare in some admittedly rare circumstances but this is hardly a sign of high quality either.

[lct]

26 minutes ago, pippy said:

My own 75mm f2.5 was bought essentially unused so although it's hardly 'new' it's possibly also far too early (I hope!) to show signs of inherent flimsyness and it has enjoyed very considerate treatment since it was acquired. As far as long-term issues are concerned, OTOH, I'm sure I will discover 'in the fullness of time'.

This is indeed a great lens but its aperture ring is fragile, as far as my 42187** copy is concerned at least, so better handle it with care unless yours is from a different batch.

[wlaidlaw]

2 hours ago, pippy said:

That's an interesting observation, Wilson.

Might I ask what it was / is about the lens which doesn't appeal to you? I'm aware that they were not to everyone's taste - Mr. Rockwell being particularly scathing in his assessment - and, in particular, the 'rubber-band' focus ring put many people off. All that notwithstanding I took a chance on picking one up (used but mint-in-box) and IMO, purely considered on its optical merits, it both renders and functions beautifully.

Philip.

Philip, 

The 75 Summarit has strangely flat rendition, that seems to compress the image. Oddly this made it an excellent technical lens for copying historic books for museums to post on their websites but I gave that business up many years ago due to the museums' historical attitude to invoice settlement - 30 eons settlement basis. 

Wilson

[Jeff S]

13 minutes ago, lct said:

The aperture ring of my 50/2 apo is not that loose but i do agree that this can be a sign of poor quality or QC. 

Well then, Leica has a lot of M lens QC issues.  I’ve discussed the recent loose aperture ring with others, including respected repair folks like DAG, who recognize the trend in recent releases. I personally handled 3 copies in a row of the 50 APO version, all with ridiculously loose rings.  Same with other lenses; nothing like my older versions.

Jeff

 

[lct]

4 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Well then, Leica has a lot of M lens QC issues.  I’ve discussed the recent loose aperture ring with others, including respected repair folks like DAG, who recognize the trend in recent releases. I personally handled 3 copies in a row of the 50 APO version, all with ridiculously loose rings.  Same with other lenses; nothing like my older versions.

My dealer rejected two copies of the 35/1.4 FLE  before delivering mine due to stiff focus ring. I should have requested the same about my 75/2 apo the focus ring of which is still not butter smooth in spite of my efforts. I have the 75/2.5 too fortunately, suffice it to breath on it to rotate its focus ring . Just kidding but Leica is fortunate to have good clients like me. 

[james.liam]

11 minutes ago, lct said:

I should have requested the same about my 75/2 apo the focus ring of which is still not butter smooth in spite of my efforts. 

Add the shorter focus throw and it has made it for me, a more difficult lens to nail focus than say, the 75 Summilux or by report, the 75 Noctilux.

[TomB_tx]

I have 35, 50, & 90 2.5 Summarits - all bought used - and find them well made, if with design simplifications to keep costs down. (The 35 & 50 use a sloped cam like the old CL lenses.) Focus is light and fast, and the aperture stops are precise and with good feel.

However, when I bought the used 35 the aperture was very light and loose, and the lens group was loose in the mount (front would wiggle in all directions). Both were caused by a securing ring at the back which had loosened, likely from twisting the front of the lens to mount/dismount. Two minutes to tighten it with a lens spanner and all has been fine since.

 I’d like to add a 75 2.5 to complete the set.

[Jeff S]

35 minutes ago, lct said:

 I have the 75/2.5 too fortunately, suffice it to breath on it to rotate its focus ring.  

If you lived in US, DAG could fix the issue.  He also made my 50 Summilux ASPH focus smoothly after Leica NJ tried and could not.

Jeff

Edited March 15, 2020 by Jeff S

[wlaidlaw]

I have an 80-200 Vario-Elmar-R which had the "breathe on it to move it" focus ring problem. Apparently a damping link was known to come loose on this lens. It was also the ex-property of a very heavy, maybe pipe smoker and smelt like a rancid ashtray. I got Will van Manen to scrape the nicotine and tar off the lens and sort the damping link out. This transformed the lens. Especially when used with the 2X APO extender, I doubt if I would have been able to focus it before its service. 

Wilson

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pippy]

2 hours ago, lct said:

This is indeed a great lens but its aperture ring is fragile, as far as my 42187** copy is concerned at least, so better handle it with care unless yours is from a different batch.

Mine (I've just checked) is 4218433 so very possibly the same batch? But, having checked, the whole package still feels very nicely made - if not quite in the same league as my 1959 21mm f4 Super-Angulon. Well Done, Schneider!............

On the strength of my contentment with the 75mm I purposely searched out a similarly well-kept 90mm f2.5. Even older (4134231) but equally unused. Just as nice - for the time being.

As far as the 'strangely flat rendition' mentioned (in post #52) by Wilson is concerned I can't, in all honesty, say I've used the lens sufficiently enough as to be in a position to comment with any tone of 'authority' whatsoever. Optically there are many things about the pair of them (primarily superb definition; lack of distortion; size; weight; reversible screw-in hood & caps) which suit my shooting preferences and it may well be that this lack of 'individual personality' is what Wilson misses? It's certainly almost completely 'Neutral' in terms of character.

I'm hoping to get many chances to explore their qualities ASAP but as things are going that may not be for a long time to come...

Thanks again, Wilson and lct!

Philip.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by pippy

[lct]

Not sure what Wilson means by flat rendition. Couple of test pics on Sony A7s mod here: https://lctphot.smugmug.com/Diverse/Summarit-7525/n-HdQ6gN/.