Leicarumours list a bunch of Leica lenses no longer on sale

[wlaidlaw]

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The Leicarumours website is quoting a translation from www.fotogoerlitz.de that the following lenses are now out of production and other than existing dealer stock, can no longer be ordered:

• Leica Super-Elmar-M 18mm f/3.8 ASPH
• Leica Summilux-M 24mm f/1.4 ASPH
• Leica Elmar-M 24mm f/3.8 ASPH
• The complete Summarit M lens line (35mm + 50mm + 75mm + 90mm)

I have to say that this is something of a surprise as the Summarit range was not long updated from the original f2.5 versions to f2.4 and the other three are also relatively recent additions to the catalogue. I bought the 18mm SEM not long after it came out and I know time flies when you get older but I don't think it can be more than 5 years ago. 

Anyone else heard anything about this from another source

Wilson

Edited March 13, 2020 by wlaidlaw

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[Jeff S]

I was going to post the same.  A quick search didn’t pull anything up.  Another somewhat recent post from Rumors about some product discontinuation turned out to be dealer specific, and not based on company action.  But maybe this is different.  I, too, would be surprised by a Summarit cancellation, but I could understand if the lineup isn’t generating sufficient sales/profits to warrant resources.  Despite the great performance, I think the line might still carry an unwarranted second class reputation.  

Jeff

[wlaidlaw]

Jeff, 

Why I have some doubts, is that this cancellation list would leave Leica without a 24mm prime lens, which they have had since 1998 for M and 1974 for R lenses. I could understand dropping one or other of the 24mm lenses, which although I like the focal length, are probably modest sellers. I have a 24mm Elmarit-R V.3 ROM lens. I also have an M lens of about this focal length but it is a ZM Biogon 25/2.8, which I bought as it was a bit more rectilinear than the Elmarit-M 24/2.8 (and about half the price). This was Leica's offering at the time, around 15 years ago before either the Summilux or Super-Elmarit came out. 

Wilson

[davidmknoble]

I would agree on the 24mm mark.  Interestingly, the SL zoom is 24-90, which could have just as easily been 28-90, so Leica recognizes the 24 and long has.  The Summilux 24 was issued first 2008 along with the 24 Elmar.  The 18 SEM was issued 2009, but the WATE in 2006, which must be more expensive to make than the 18 SEM and no mention of a removal of the  21 'lux.  So, a theory that Leica just doesn't want really wide angle lenses for the rangefinder, but leave them for the SL up, does not make sense.  

Thanks for posting, I guess we wait and see...

[wlaidlaw]

My guess is that Leica must be struggling to sell M lenses when for a tiny fraction of the price, you can buy super fast Chinese lenses which are not at all bad. 5% of the price for 70% or more of the performance. I have bought in the last 18 months a 28/1.4, a 21/1.5 and 70/1.25 from 7 or TT Artisans. All combined for less than the price of a single second hand recent Leica M lens. 

Wilson

[Jürgen]

With the upcoming of the mirrorless Leica SL camera the costumers since don't buy so much wide angle M-lenses over 28mm. The Leica M costumers like to buy mostly M lenses in the range of 28mm to 90mm. And Leica follows only this trend. I think this is more important than the Chinese competitors. Leica costumers have enough money to buy expensive lenses, but now they buy the SL lenses. That's all. 😀 

[luigi bertolotti]

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I have checked the fotogoerlitz site but (though not so smart on German) can't find any refernce to the discontinuation : I have the feel it's a sort of fake news...🙄...

Surely, managing a product list  with so many items, many of them sold at very slow rates is a problem to manage with care  , but those are products with very high industrial margin and a very stabilized manufacturing process , not depending on the sourcing complexities of products with many electronics ... they are pure metal+glass+some ancillary plastic/rubber components...  I think that they can keep a detailed track of the lenses that are available in their worldwide sales network, keep track on demand,  and decide when to launch a production batch of a certain item depending on those feedbacks... in my opinion, given the mix price/complexity  I think that an "economical"  batch can be rather small (250 - 300 items ?)  to continue the declared availability of items that surely  aren't in high demand (how many people a year do order an Apo Telyt ? A WATE ? How long one is disposed to wait if the item isn't available in the Leica channel ?)

Edited March 13, 2020 by luigi bertolotti

[Jürgen]

Also the WATE may be is going to be cancelled in the future. The M camera system comes back to its core business. No worries! 😁

[lct]

Can't seem to find anything like this on the Foto Görlitz site but those lenses are not available there and neither seem they at Meister Camera (Germany). They are available in France (Fnac) and in Luxembourg (Lecuit) though. Also in the USA (B&H) besides the 24/1.4. Not sure what L or other AF lenses have to do with that. 

[m410]

The last thing I will do with my Leica is replace the fine German created optics with cheap Chinese copies...why sell the intellectual or scientific knowledge developed by Leica with the reverse engineering (copying) culture of China? 

Very sorry to see Leica eliminating lens lines  in order to save the company if that is in fact what is happening.

[dkmoore]

54 minutes ago, m410 said:

The last thing I will do with my Leica is replace the fine German created optics with cheap Chinese copies...why sell the intellectual or scientific knowledge developed by Leica with the reverse engineering (copying) culture of China? 

Very sorry to see Leica eliminating lens lines  in order to save the company if that is in fact what is happening.

I think we are getting (Way) ahead of ourselves here. 

[bjornthun]

The German language Meister Camera lists the Summarits, 18/3.8, 24/3.8 and the others, https://www.meister-camera.com/de/c_leica_m/60

[otto.f]

8 hours ago, Jürgen said:

With the upcoming of the mirrorless Leica SL camera the costumers since don't buy so much wide angle M-lenses over 28mm. The Leica M costumers like to buy mostly M lenses in the range of 28mm to 90mm. And Leica follows only this trend. I think this is more important than the Chinese competitors. Leica costumers have enough money to buy expensive lenses, but now they buy the SL lenses. That's all. 😀 

This statement is going way too far. This week Peter Karbe posted a video this week which showed a total dedication to the M line, keeping up the core values of the M3. SL lenses have nothing to do with Leica’s mission in M, just as R and M had separate missions in the past. And wide angle had always a special place in the M line, see for instance the 0.58 viewfinder.

[Jürgen]

Dear Otto,

I also believe, that Leica never forget the M-Line.

But if more and more costumers don't like to buy extreme wide angle M-lenses which we only can use with an EVF-finder that could be Leica's reaction due to this trend. 

Jürgen

[otto.f]

This statement is different from the one you made above. And the Summarit line does not fit in it. I’ll wait and see what Leica is up to or whether there is something going on in the first place. Speculating about stopping production is another thing than finding information of new Leica products that need to be registered somewhere.

12 minutes ago, Jürgen said:

Dear Otto,

I also believe, that Leica never forget the M-Line.

But if more and more costumers don't like to buy extreme wide angle M-lenses which we only can use with an EVF-finder that could be Leica's reaction due to this trend. 

Jürgen

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by otto.f

[wlaidlaw]

8 hours ago, m410 said:

The last thing I will do with my Leica is replace the fine German created optics with cheap Chinese copies...why sell the intellectual or scientific knowledge developed by Leica with the reverse engineering (copying) culture of China? 

Very sorry to see Leica eliminating lens lines  in order to save the company if that is in fact what is happening.

Leica forfeited any loyalty I might feel towards them, when firstly they sold off all reflex camera spare parts to third parties, where the recipient of the R8/9 parts inventory does not sell them on to owners and secondly, when they stopped supplying any spare parts for either rangefinder or digital cameras to third party repairers, some of whom have had a 50+ year relationship with Leica and have even repaired Leica's own museum items. I have been a Leica user for over 60 years and a collector for the past 40+ years. The latter is just sheer greed to funnel all repairs into their over-priced workshops. 

Wilson

[SrMi]

All listed lenses can be ordered on Leica Camera USA website and are in stock. Looks like false rumor to me.

[jdlaing]

8 minutes ago, SrMi said:

All listed lenses can be ordered on Leica Camera USA website and are in stock. Looks like false rumor to me.

It’s better for all of us to run around with our hair on fire after hearing a rumor on a third rate website. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jeff S]

I think the comments below the Rumors post, from Nicci and others, strongly suggest that this is (another) false report, with no apparent attempt to research or corroborate.  The credibility of the site, which held steady following the M9 launch, has plummeted ever since the C-M fiasco.

Jeff

 

[adan]

On 3/13/2020 at 6:51 AM, wlaidlaw said:

I bought the 18mm SEM not long after it came out and I know time flies when you get older but I don't think it can be more than 5 years ago. 

The 18mm came out 11 years ago, in 2009. I was there - I used one briefly on an M8 (as an effective "24mm") during the summer before the M9 came out (9/9/2009).

But I tend to date everything by what gear I was using at the time - "9/11? - Oh yes, I'd just acquired a used M4-P and 28mm." So I'm weird, and don't feel bad.

____

Anyway, as an observer of Leitz/Leica as well as a user, I see reasons to be doubtful this is correct, but also not be surprised if it is correct.

On the "rumor correct" side: • Leica has discontinued or retired approximately 55 different M lenses since the line began (The wiki lists 80 M lenses, and the current lineup comprises 25 still in production (maybe)). Discontinuing lenses is something Leica does - no one should be surprised by that. • The current lineup of 25 M lenses (pictured on the rumor page) is rather excessive for one line of a small company - I have a 1984 M4-P brochure in which the entire M lens line was 12 lenses, 21 to 135mm (two 135s!). • Those two 135s were themselves discontinued and replaced with one lens, the 135 APO, in the 1990s. • It is a tough business world right now - troubles in Asia, lens tariffs, virus, markets collapse, Huawei issues, on top of the overall shifts in photography. • It would not surprise me if Leica were rationalizing and down-sizing the lens line, dropping those that underperform in sales and are tieing up cash. • It is fairly obvious (at least to me) that Leica has been pushing excess M stock out the door (Mostly M240/246) to raise income for some time ("Zenit" M240, Lennie Kravitz editions, colored lens editions, etc.).

It should be noted that stores having this or that lens in stock or listed on their webpage is no evidence at all that Leica is still making them. The first M lens I bought in 2001 was a new-old-stock 21 Elmarit. The store still had a new one for sale three years after it had been discontinued - such is the world of low-volume lenses, for which I think the 18 and the 24s also qualify.

Lenses can be discontinued to make room for a replacement, and as mentioned regarding the 135s, two lenses may be discontinued to make room for one replacement. So discontinuing both current 24s doesn't necessarily mean Leica is giving up on 24 as a viable product - there may be a "new and improved" 24 Summicron/Elmarit of some kind just over the horizon.

On the "rumor incorrect" side: - LeicaRumors cried "wolf" once already, as previous mentioned. Reported the 135 APO-Telyt had been discontinued. • Leica builds lenses in batches, as we know. It is much more efficient for them to built 2000 of lens X at a time, and change the machines and staff over to making other lenses, and then come back after 2-3 years and build another 2000 of lens X. Assuming 2000 will fill demand for 2-3 years. Sometimes Leica guesses wrong, and runs out of the first batch before they are ready to make more - this happened with the 90 APO-Summicron around the time the M9 came out - none were available new for over a year. Stores may be confusing (or misdescribing) a temporary shortage as a discontinuance.