New MP Question

[dkmoore]

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I bought a brand new Leica MP 3 weeks ago and have run 4 rolls of film through the camera. I will probably shoot a few more rolls of film before I get anything developed. Infinity focus looking at the moon is perfect. I have no good way to test close focus.

Is it a waste to go through rolls of film without knowing the rangefinder is adjusted?

Is it good practice to have Leica NJ (or someone else) check focus out of the box or is that likely overkill?

I've heard a fair number of people get M240s and M10s out of the box with ill-adjusted rangefinders and am wondering if this common enough for concern...Including myself and the camera had to go to Germany in fact to repair the rangefinder roller assembly.

Edited January 7, 2020 by dkmoore

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello DK,

Back in the old days before people first walked on the Moon the traditional way to test a camera that was new to them was to buy a 36 exposure roll of a narrow latitude slide film such as Kodachrome II and then: 

With NO film in the camera: EXercise the shutter at least 6 or more times at each setting. Including "B" & "T". Then do the same to the new lens/lenses 20 times.

Then: Using the BOX rated ASA/DIN (ISO was not used on boxes then.) First make an exposure at the rated box speed. Then in 1/2 stop increments take photos +1/2 stop, +1 stop, +1&1/2 stop, + 2 stops.

Then -1/2 stop, - 1 stop, -1&1/2 stop, -2 stops.

Then during the daytime when the sun is bright: Pointing your camera into the sky away from the sun. Or at a WHITE wall: Take a series of photos of the wall beginning with 1/1000 sec @ the smallest lens opening. Then 1/500 @ the next lens opening. All of the way to the largest opening.

When you get to the largest opening return the lens to the smallest setting.

Set the shutter speed to 2 (TWO) stops FASTER than it was when the lens was set at its largest opening.

Begin the progression again.

Continue until you have reached & done 1 second.

Then enjoy using the remaining film for whatever you want.

Send or do the film for STANDARD processing.

When the slides come back: If all is OK then the first photo will be the best (Possibly not perfect.) exposure. If not, perhaps 1 of the others will. Not necessarily a big deal. Let us know.

The groups of exposures of +/-  1/2 shutter speed coupled with the reverse in lens openings should produce GROUPS of slides with more or less consistent densities. Altho sometimes there are SMALL irregularities.

The different groups will most likely be be different densities. Altho each group internally should be more or less consistent.

Let us know what happens & we can go on from there.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Michael Geschlecht

[dkmoore]

14 minutes ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello DK,

Back in the old days before people first walked on the Moon the traditional way to test a camera that was new to them was to buy a 36 exposure roll of a narrow latitude slide film such as Kodachrome II and then: 

With NO film in the camera: EXercise the shutter at least 6 or more times at each setting. Including "B" & "T". Then do the same to the new lens/lenses 20 times.

Then: Using the BOX rated ASA/DIN (ISO was not used on boxes then.) First make an exposure at the rated box speed. Then in 1/2 stop increments take photos +1/2 stop, +1 stop, +1&1/2 stop, + 2 stops.

Then -1/2 stop, - 1 stop, -1&1/2 stop, -2 stops.

Then during the daytime when the sun is bright: Pointing your camera into the sky away from the sun. Or at a WHITE wall: Take a series of photos of the wall beginning with 1/1000 sec @ the smallest lens opening. Then 1/500 @ the next lens opening. All of the way to the largest opening.

When you get to the largest opening return the lens to the smallest setting.

Set the shutter speed to 2 (TWO) stops FASTER than it was when the lens was set at its largest opening.

Begin the progression again.

Continue until you have reached & done 1 second.

Then enjoy using the remaining film for whatever you want.

Send or do the film for STANDARD processing.

When the slides come back: If all is OK then the first photo will be the best (Possibly not perfect.) exposure. If not, perhaps 1 of the others will. Not necessarily a big deal. Let us know.

The groups of exposures of +/-  1/2 shutter speed coupled with the reverse in lens openings should produce GROUPS of slides with more or less consistent densities. Altho sometimes there are SMALL irregularities.

The different groups will most likely be be different densities. Altho each group internally should be more or less consistent.

Let us know what happens & we can go on from there.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

Thank you Michael. This is excellent information. I was asking more about the rangefinder mechanism/adjustment rather than shutter speeds. 

You make a good point that the shutter speeds could also need adjusting straight out of the box although I was less concerned with that (not sure why).

Since I already shot 4 rolls I will see what the film developer says when he processes the film.

[fotografr]

2 hours ago, dkmoore said:

Thank you Michael. This is excellent information. I was asking more about the rangefinder mechanism/adjustment rather than shutter speeds. 

You make a good point that the shutter speeds could also need adjusting straight out of the box although I was less concerned with that (not sure why).

Since I already shot 4 rolls I will see what the film developer says when he processes the film.

Back in my film days I bought two new MPs and just went out shooting. Both were dead on. I'd be surprised if you find anything different. Between 1980 and 2000, I owned around 20 different Leica rangefinder cameras and none of them needed any adjustment. But, maybe I was just lucky. Let us know how the films look.

[Nitnaros]

I would not send the MP by default for adjustment

I have an M7, M8, M9, M-Mono, M10P and only once had to send the camera for rangefinder adjustment
 

close focus shouldn’t be too hard to test; shoot a measurement tape at a distance close to the close focus limit (say 1m), on tripod and remember on what mark you focused. Try 2-3 f-stops and 2-3 different lenses. What do you get - front / back or accurate focus?

Congrats to the new MP!
i just picked up a very mint M5 

[dkmoore]

Thanks for the responses! I will have the rolls processed in a few days and will wait to see what I get. Will post a few pictures. 

[TomB_tx]

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Before the Internet arrived and promoted paranoia, we just bought new cameras and used them. I used my Leica M cameras for more than 40 years without ever sending them in for service. My LeicaflexSL developed a meter cell problem, or it would also have avoided side-trips. I did have other cameras (Pentax, Canon, etc) develop problems with use, but all were fine when new. 

After several years I did need to have the RF on my M9 adjusted, but I believe it was knocked out by my careless attempt to mount and use a Summicron DR. Otherwise my M2, M3 (2), M4, M5, M6, and CL never developed RF problems, let alone my older models II through IIIg.

However, My M6 did need RF re-adjustment after a CLA service by a recommended tech, but it was fine before sending it in. When that tech insisted it was in tolerance I sent it to DAG instead, who adjusted it correctly.

In recent years I've collected a lot of used film cameras of various brands, and I always check them "dry" first, and if all looks OK shoot and process a test roll to verify, as these typically have been stored in attics or such unused for decades.

[Michael Geschlecht]

17 hours ago, Nitnaros said:

I would not send the MP by default for adjustment

I have an M7, M8, M9, M-Mono, M10P and only once had to send the camera for rangefinder adjustment
 

close focus shouldn’t be too hard to test; shoot a measurement tape at a distance close to the close focus limit (say 1m), on tripod and remember on what mark you focused. Try 2-3 f-stops and 2-3 different lenses. What do you get - front / back or accurate focus?

Congrats to the new MP!
i just picked up a very mint M5 

Hello DK,

This is good advice. You might add to it the same @ 3 meters & 10 meters. Using something like the side of a window of a building at 45 degrees away from where you are for the 10 meters. And the moon for Infinity.

All on a tripod, of course, or else you are wasting your time.

By the way, people writing above about how accurate everything is most of the time are correct. Most Leitz/Leica stuff is just fine. Even after significant use. But, it doesn't hurt to check.

1 roll of film & you are done. Slide film is better.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited January 7, 2020 by Michael Geschlecht

[dkmoore]

Thanks all for the responses! 
 

I have owned a bunch of Leica cameras And lenses from new and have only had a couple of small problems over a 9 year period and Leica sorted them out all very quickly. 
 

unfortunately I’m the paranoid type. 🤐 I’ll have rolls back from developing this week and will check out the images for focus. 

[250swb]

I make sure I open the box while standing on one leg and reciting any random paragraph from the Manual backwards. It must work because in forty years of buying new film and digital Leica's the rangefinder has never been out of adjustment. Yes your rangefinder could be badly adjusted, but the forum is awash with half heard tales of woe recited back as gospel not to mention absurd rituals dating way back in time all aimed ultimately at exhausting your enthusiasm. 

[dkmoore]

3 hours ago, 250swb said:

I make sure I open the box while standing on one leg and reciting any random paragraph from the Manual backwards. It must work because in forty years of buying new film and digital Leica's the rangefinder has never been out of adjustment. Yes your rangefinder could be badly adjusted, but the forum is awash with half heard tales of woe recited back as gospel not to mention absurd rituals dating way back in time all aimed ultimately at exhausting your enthusiasm. 

No doubt. And even when I posed the question my rational side thought better. My first digital Leica was the M9 and I have owned every iteration since including both Monochroms multiple times. 
 

the only rangefinder issues I’ve ever had were with an M246 that I bought used and in fact, Leica never ended up getting the rangefinder sorted after 3 attempts. Also, a brand new M10P had some issue that had to go to Germany. They ended up replacing that camera with another new M10P. But...2 out of 12 M cameras did leave me a little paranoid as I use the OVF 100% of the time. 

[spydrxx]

Not sure about the MP3, as I've never seen a photo of the rear. But with all of my M film bodies in the past, it was easy to mount the camera on a tripod, open the rear and use a cable to keep the shutter open, place a ground glass (or in my case a shimmed used focus screen from a trashed Nikon body) at the film plane, along with a magnifier. I'd sight at both near distance and at least optical infinity for the lens in question. Initially focus wide open aperture via the rangefinder, and then check it at the film plane. I've done this type of check on all of my rangefinder bodies over the years (except Barnacks). Where necessary I made RF adjustments and subsequent film shots confirmed those adjustments. Hopefully this has been useful to you.

[pedaes]

38 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

Not sure about the MP3...

...MP 3 weeks....

Note gap 

 

[ianman]

On 1/7/2020 at 6:24 AM, Nitnaros said:

i just picked up a very mint M5 

What is a very mint M5? 

[earleygallery]

45 minutes ago, ianman said:

What is a very mint M5? 

It's shocking what some people describe as 'mint' - just look at listings on ebay!

Mint SHOULD mean not new but as new, of course. So yes, 'very' mint can only really be mint. Just don't say minty!

[a.noctilux]

49 minutes ago, ianman said:

What is a very mint M5? 

this minty 50th anniversary M5 ?

[dkmoore]

7 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

It's shocking what some people describe as 'mint' - just look at listings on ebay!

Mint SHOULD mean not new but as new, of course. So yes, 'very' mint can only really be mint. Just don't say minty!

The word Minty makes me cringe. Like nails on a chalkboard. 

[earleygallery]

10 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

this minty 50th anniversary M5 ?

So with a few issues to repair, not mint. Very nice, but not mint.

[250swb]

Maybe it's counter intuitive but with 'mint' you have to hope they are lying and that the camera has been used, otherwise who knows why it hasn't been used?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Topsy]

When buying used I always put a roll of slide film through to test focus/exposure etc and wait until I get the film back before shooting anything I might want to keep but new I wouldn't bother it should be right out of the box.