My new new M5 - a few questions for the experts

[Nitnaros]

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Hi Guys,

Having used Leica M's since 2003, I had since years an interest in the M5;

I have film-Leica experience via the M7 and love its auto-exposure capability (and the camera as a whole) - I want to shoot fast and this helps me.

The M5 offers the exposure capability coupled with the full mechanical shutter, and seemed more ergonomic than an M6TTL or MP. And more sexy.

I received today my M5 "50 Jahre" via an ebay purchase; very good serial #, 1378xxx and visually in perfect condition.
I wonder where these cameras are kept for 45 years with hardly any use...

Here are my questions (I did read the manual, which actually came with the camera):

- the manual says "intermittent (shutter) speeds can be set" ... I just can't feel any defined position say between 1/250 and 1/500 seconds; it seems the dial just keeps continuously rotating between the two speed stops. Can I indeed assume that the camera will release at 1/375?

- the self-timer worked twice, but then moved into a "free play" state with no action triggered; I assume that internal mechanics needs to be fixed, there is no other "operator error" why it doesn't engage anymore

- slow shutter speeds seem OK, but the camera makes a kind of whirling sound at speeds like 1/2 or 1/4 or 1/8; is this normal?

- the battery has not been updated; compartment looks completely clean, I put a Wein cell in and it works. But it gets the shutter speed wrong by 2 stops: say my MP or M7 or even Fuji reports 1/250 seconds; the M5 will report 1/1000 for the same aperture and same ISO... Just needs recalibration or what?
During batter check the needle even overshoots a bit he cutout area in the display

- maybe most important: the viewfinder has on the outside a narrow piece of what seems to be black tape running over it (horizontally, along the bottom edge).  It is not visible when looking thru the finder, but clearly visible on the outside. See close-up pic below. My fault I didn't ask the ebay seller about it, it just didn't catch my attention. Has anybody seen that done on an M for whatever reason?

Thank You for any help.

I cant wait to put a roll thru that puppy !
(I can measure exposure without the internal meter until I have come to a decision whether to send the camera to Sherry or similar for a CLA and checkup.)

Peter

 

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[Nitnaros]

a few more pic from my new M5 as a bit of camera porn ... 🙂

(the third pic in combo with my pristine M7)

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[UliWer]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Nitnaros:

- slow shutter speeds seem OK, but the camera makes a kind of whirling sound at speeds like 1/2 or 1/4 or 1/8; is this normal?

You should here the „whirling sound“ after the shutter closed with a constant „decrescendo“ (getting more silent while it runs). This is completely normal for any M with mechanical shutter and even a good sign that the shutter works as it should.

[105012]

3 hours ago, Nitnaros said:

- the manual says "intermittent (shutter) speeds can be set" ... I just can't feel any defined position say between 1/250 and 1/500 seconds; it seems the dial just keeps continuously rotating between the two speed stops. Can I indeed assume that the camera will release at 1/375?

...

- slow shutter speeds seem OK, but the camera makes a kind of whirling sound at speeds like 1/2 or 1/4 or 1/8; is this normal?

...

- maybe most important: the viewfinder has on the outside a narrow piece of what seems to be black tape running over it (horizontally, along the bottom edge).  It is not visible when looking thru the finder, but clearly visible on the outside. See close-up pic below. My fault I didn't ask the ebay seller about it, it just didn't catch my attention. Has anybody seen that done on an M for whatever reason?

Yes, the intermittent speeds will work and there is no detent for them.  1/30th and slower uses the timer (with 'whir') for second curtain release timing. My M5 does not have this tape in the viewfinder, I can speculate that it might act to increase contrast on the analog meter scale (much better than blinky LED's BTW) and the shutter speed indication.

Edited January 7, 2020 by 105012

[a.noctilux]

Nice M5, Peter.

Regarding the black tape in front of the VF, I think that was previous user customisation (to better see the VF indications, I bet).

You may peel it out (or not).

My two M5 don't "need" this "taping", as the VF contrast is good enough to see the indications in VF.

Maybe your "new M5" needs some professional attention ( I think that with your descriptions, the M5 had not been CLAed before you bought it ).

 

have a look at other M5 in this thread "I love..."

 

[Nitnaros]

thank you folks, that’s helpful information; 

I was guessing that the black tape band had the intention of better visibility and isn’t related to a crack in the VF. You guys confirmed that.

shutter sound, intermittent speeds ... got it

—

how about the meter being so off despite using the 1.35V Wein cells ... is that occurring often in used bodies?

— 

I think the camera should go to service; 45 years old, how could one expect that a  device wouldn’t need some care?  

I guess I can fool the exposure meter via the ISO setting to compensate for the 2 stop shift; do a few rolls, then send it in.

have a look at other M5 in this thread "I love..."

yes, looked at this email thread; actually not only fun but really helpful seeing what’s out there in what condition. Should add my M5 pics. 

[TomB_tx]

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Regarding the meter being off, CdS cells can be affected by moisture penetration over time that lowers the ultimate resistance to very low light, so it meters thinking the low light is brighter that it is. Your description fits this condition. A good tech can adjust this somewhat, but not perfectly without replacing the CdS cell. I had this condition in my Leicaflex SL, and luckily at that time DAG still had a NOS cell to replace it.

M5 cells have been unavailable for some time, but I believe Sherry Krauter was trying to source an aftermarket replacement some time ago. She is a great source for M5 service, so you might see if she can service yours.

I also picked up a 50 Jahre M5 (black) several years ago and agree it is a great camera. Although I started with an M4 in 1968 I skipped the M5 due to the negative comments of Leica users back then, and added an M6 in 1985. I should have ignored the bad press and tried the M5 earlier!

[adan]

As to the metering:

1) Some M5s have had the meter circuit modified or recalibrated to work with "modern" 1.5v batteries, in which case the Wein cell is no longer the "right" voltage. This won't show in the battery compartment - it will be a modification deeper inside.

The fact your battery check is pinning out with a Wein cell might indicate this is true for your camera.

2) CdS photoresistors (the snaking line on the M5 meter sensor) do go bad. A lot of the classic Gossen Luna-Pros (of the M5 era) have become paperweights due to CdS failure. Which is a problem, because it is such "antique" technology, and finding a replacement with exactly the right size and resistance behavior (light in > current out) could be hard.

3) the M5 does have a slightly different metering area than the off-the-shutter MP/M7 meters, and most probably any Fuji. The M5 meter is even more of a spot meter, rather than center "weighted," reading nothing at all except what is in the viewfinder tick-marks (  ) with a 50mm lens. And correspondingly smaller areas with teles and broader areas with wide-angles (as with any classic M metering).

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Peter,

Nice camera.

The battery test, which is done  by pulling the frame selector lever a little more away from the lens, than it is with a 35mm lens in place: Is supposed to go a little beyond the "notch" if the battery is OK.

The variable shutter is NOT variable between 1/30 & the small dot between the 1/30 & the 1/60. The small dot of the M5 is a lightning bolt on some other "M" cameras.

The small dot is 1/50 second. The fastest electronic flash shutter speed setting.

The metering pattern on an M5 is:

When using a 50mm lens: The "Barrel" that appears within the 50mm frame with a 50mm lens in place. 

When using a 35mm lens: An imaginary circle that would surround & touch the corners of the rectangular frame for the 135mm lens.

When using a 90mm lens: An imaginary circle that would surround & touch the corners of the STATIONARY rectangle of the rangefinder.

When using a 135mm lens: An imaginary circle that would be a circle which is the diameter of the HEIGHT of & within the center of, the STATIONARY rangefinder rectangle.

When using a 28mm lens: An imaginary circle that would surround & touch the corners of the rectangular frame for the 90mm lens.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

 

[payasam]

The first two metered Leicas, the M5 and the CL, were released, I think, in the early 1970s. Neither the M5 nor any other camera of which I know has had an "intermittent" shutter. With some cameras, from various brands, intermediate speeds can be set.

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

My favorite metered film Leica M.  Much prefer match/needle over diodes.  My big hands too always liked the M5.  Surprisingly ergonomic.  When I got back into rangefinders though, couple years ago after a decade away, I went merterless.  By then I really developed my sunny 16 skills supplemented by a hand held meter.  I only shoot B&W, so that very sensitive meter of the M5 is sort of a waste on me.  

Edited January 31, 2020 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[Nitnaros]

I like the metered Leica  cameras such as my M7;

did a few walkarounds with my M7 versus Sekonic Meter and the M7 meters well;

if the recalibrated M5 meter performs similarly, I’m happy;

shot one roll of focus test images - camera/rangefinder worked perfectly.

The M5 is currently in overhaul for a CLA ... I figured at 45 years of age, highly justified 

[payasam]

When, in 2012, I was finally able to buy a metered Leica to replace the two M3s I had had (not togetjer) from 1985 to 2012, I was ready to buy either an M5 or an M6 whose price was within my reach.  It happened that an M6 was the first to show up. I was pleased to get it, but quickly found that it was virtually unusable because its finder had had parts removed, presumably to lower the cost of manufacture. Don Goldberg set it right. Before long, I found that many of its frame lines had been made terribly inaccurate by the inclusion of a frame for 28mm in a finder which had been designed for 35mm at the widest. But I used it until 2015, when I had to give up film because having it processed in my city had become far too difficult. I used its lenses on its digital replacement, a Sony A7, which is about the same size. From time to time I get nostalgic and think of the two M3s with which I did my best work.