Trying to decide between m10-p and m10-d

[Landiah]

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I currently only shoot a film m6 and MP. Considering that my lens collection is growing the next step feels to be a digital leica. My question is how much am I missing out on by going the m10-D route? I am generally more attracted to the simplicity of the camera but I do feel that having the screen could be nice especially if doing professional work. Would I miss out on focus peaking making lenses like the noctilux that much more difficult to focus? 
Alternatively, I am in no rush, would it make sense to wait for the next generation M camera?

Edited December 13, 2019 by Landiah

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[evikne]

If you put on a half case with a removable leather LCD screen protector on an M10-P, you will have both an M10-P and "M10-D" in one. 😉

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Landiah said:

I currently only shoot a film m6 and MP. Considering that my lens collection is growing the next step feels to be a digital leica. My question is how much am I missing out on by going the m10-D route? I am generally more attracted to the simplicity of the camera but I do feel that having the screen could be nice especially if doing professional work. Would I miss out on focus peaking making lenses like the noctilux that much more difficult to focus? 
Alternatively, I am in no rush, would it make sense to wait for the next generation M camera?

If there's professional work involved then the M10/M10P route is the only choice in my opinion, you need to have a LCD screen for professional work if only to be able to check the images as you work. Forget Fotos in regards to checking images with the M10-D, ( and the other M10's too for that matter ), it's slow and way too quirky to suit the needs of a Pro' user and I find it's next to useless as is the GPS function on all the M10's if that's something that you feel would be of use to you in your pro' workspace.

Having said that despite other quibbles I have with the camera's design functionality I find the M10-D the most enjoyable digital Leica M that I have yet owned, and I've had them all since the M8, the MM1 is the close second perhaps solely for the quality of it's B+W files. I have both the M10-D and the M10, for pro' work situations the M10 would go out with me, for my personal imaging that would be the M10-D.

[andyturk]

Initially, I was very interested in the M10-D too. I don't shoot professionally and the notion of a "purist" kind of camera seemed appealing.

However, I ended up buying a -P instead. Leica's WiFi implementation and connection to the mobile app is incredibly cumbersome. When you want to talk to the camera via your phone, it takes quite a long time to get a connection set up. Any simplicity gained by omitting the screen is lost (and then some) by being forced to use the app to view and change various settings. In the end, having a built-in screen simplifies the overall experience, and if you don't look at the -P's LCD while shooting, it might as well be a -D.

I'm a big fan of the faux wind lever though, and wish my M10-P had the same.

[250swb]

If it's your first digital M go with the M10, it is just common sense to get the whole experience before deciding to work with one hand tied behind your back.

[M11 for me]

I would not like to be without the screen. For many situations with "normal light" the D might be fully ok. This is definitely the case. But in difficult lighting situation with lots of light and lots of shadows you need some control to find out wether or not the dark areas are too dark or the light areas are blown out. The meter is not able to measure that to my liking. And if for these situations you have no screen I think that you would miss that a lot. I would anyway miss the screen even though I do not use it too much. Its true that I sometimes think I should have the D. But realistic it is not for me.

[a.noctilux]

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I'm lucky enough to have choices M with or without screen for different use.

At first M10 when it was launched 2017 (by that time I wanted M-D 262 but in second hand market, and never found one).

Then came the M-D 262 second hand as I wanted some months before.

 

This M-D became my favorite M ... but M10 is "better", so my choices are the two 😇.

 

[Knipsknecht]

Well, depending on what kind of professional work you’re talking about, I would think about a SL or even better SL2, too (if it has to be a Leica). As much as I like my M9 and my M10 - when it comes to the point where I simply have “to deliver”, I’d choose something a little bit more reliable than a rangefinder. That means, unless your customers are okay with a set of photos where maybe (just maybe) not all pics are 100% in focus.

[Photon42]

The M10D is presently my only digital M camera, but I do own other digital cameras. Most notably, a Nikon Z7 which can take most of my M lenses without issues. The MD models are in a way the essence of M, not trying to have a large shooting envelope, but rather being a precision instrument for photographing street and essentially the life around me with least possible distraction. I had an M10, in case you ask. The Leica app is buggy (no idea why this is such a problem to improve quality here), but thankfully not really needed for most things. I like to have it mainly for having the odd card formatted, which was not possible with the M-D 262. For inspecting photos from time to time, I suggest buying an SD card dongle for your phone. Fast, straight forward and less battery intensive.

[KFo]

Not a professional photographer nor do I play one in TV...  But I shoot a lot, everyday. It’s as if my life depended upon it  

I bought the M10-P and seriously considered the M10-D.  I like the fewer distractions from my camera, however, I’ve felt no pressure whatsoever from the LCD which is off 99% of the time.

Do find find value in the LCD for contrasty lighting where I can take a couple of shots to dial the exposure between burning highlight and blocking shadow. The fact is can do this without the LCD just gut feeling it but sometimes I really want the most from the entire range of luminance.  
 

I also find value in the LCD when heading out to shot.  I can reload a base profile easily and format the SD card, all taking settings back to my nominal in moments no phone required.

My last reason for sticking to the 10P is the phone connection requirement.  While iPhones are in many ways miraculous devices, the connection via Bluetooth or WiFi to other devices always seems to leave something wanting.

Best luck choosing; it’s a good problem to have.  Choice that is!

Regards,

Kevin

[Landiah]

Seems mike the M10-P is indeed the reasonable choice for a first digital Leica. With that being said, have there been any speculations on when the new mode might be released? 

[Peter Kilmister]

One serious advantage of the M10-P (or M10) over the M10-D is if one uses a wide angle lens (wider than 28mm). Then there is the option of LV so that composure may be considered ... a rather important part of photography.  LV is a feature that doesn't present itself in the M10-D.

I also like the option of briefly checking composure/focus/light after taking a shot. It is known as 'chimping' but has its virtues.

Recently a lady asked I would take a photo for her. She is a painter and wanted to capture a scene so she could paint it. I obliged. There and then, within seconds of taking the picture, I was able to show her the unprocessed scene and ask her if I had captured the scene she wanted. She was very happy. I sent the the processed photo and she loved it.

Art doesn't have to be created in a darkened room.

[IkarusJohn]

11 hours ago, Landiah said:

I currently only shoot a film m6 and MP. Considering that my lens collection is growing the next step feels to be a digital leica. My question is how much am I missing out on by going the m10-D route? I am generally more attracted to the simplicity of the camera but I do feel that having the screen could be nice especially if doing professional work. Would I miss out on focus peaking making lenses like the noctilux that much more difficult to focus? 
Alternatively, I am in no rush, would it make sense to wait for the next generation M camera?

I have an M10-D, and a collection of M lenses.  I’m not a professional, so I cannot comment on your use.

I feel that the M camera suits the M10-D format better than the M10-P, but I guess it depends on what you need the LCD for.  If you chimp a lot, and like to dive into menus for white balance etc, then the M10-D might not be the best choice.  Many say if you don’t like the LCD, don’t use it (much like not using video).   I find this a distraction.  The M10-D gives direct setting of ISO, EC, aperture, shutter and focus, which is all very familiar.  I find I think more about what’s going on.

To respond on some comments above:

• for framing outside 28 & 75 mm, the EVF is fine.  It also provides focus magnification, if you need it.  I never use focus peaking - it’s less accurate than the optical viewfinder
• properly calibrated, the optical view finder with challenging lenses like the Noctilux and 75 Summilux is fast and accurate (though I suspect the SL has a better hit rate) and it’s way more accurate with slower wides like the 28 Summaron-M, if that’s ever an issue for you
• I find the Fotos App useful - when you switch on WiFi, it takes a while to boot up (don’t try to connect until the light on the back of the camera stops flashing).  I use it for camera settings (rarely), remote firing (on a tripod) and browsing images over a beer (and sometimes posting)
• the thumb-rest is really useful (surprisingly)

So, why get the M10-D, when the M10-P is the same, but has the advantage of a screen?  Well, it’s not about needing the EVF or the Fotos App, it’s an M.  Optical viewfinder, great for 28-75 primes, all the controls direct.  The epitome of simplicity.

I have an SL for AF, and everything else that goes with it.  I don’t want my M to do more than the simple basics - anything more detracts.

 

[e100vs]

Not sure about the M10-D but beware of getting the M10-P, there is random Sd card and freeze issue that might cost you months to fix it. You may search this forum for those issues. Some even said the same issue reappears after the fix which is fruatrating.

[Fedro]

M10P for me. I had the original MD, it is a great camera and a lovely concept but I sold it to finance the 10-P and no regrets

I did skip the M10D as I felt they were trying to fit in too much compared to the original

I dont find the screen much of a problem and it is useful when you need to:

- check critical focus

- use with wide angle lenses (i.e. I definitely prefer to have the screen versus mounting the frankenfinder)

- horizon lines are useful if you plan to use it for tripod/long exposures etc

Bottom line .. I carry the M when I want to travel light so I dont see any disadvantages in having options (i.e. the screen) as it does not add any weight and it means that I can leave other stuff at home. If I really dont want to deal with a screen I use my film MP

 

[T25UFO]

19 hours ago, Landiah said:

I currently only shoot a film m6 and MP. Considering that my lens collection is growing the next step feels to be a digital leica. My question is how much am I missing out on by going the m10-D route? I am generally more attracted to the simplicity of the camera but I do feel that having the screen could be nice especially if doing professional work. Would I miss out on focus peaking making lenses like the noctilux that much more difficult to focus? 
Alternatively, I am in no rush, would it make sense to wait for the next generation M camera?

Film cameras don't have a screen 🙂 so if you currently only shoot film for professional work then there's no disadvantage using the M10-D.  The D is the same size as the P but it feels smaller, at least for me.  This might sound odd - maybe the absence of buttons on the back.  The D will feel pretty much the same when shooting alongside your M6 or MP.

The EVF quality doesn't get even remotely close to the SL, but it's useful if used occasionally.  I don't have a Noctilux but do use the EVF when shooting wide open with the 90mm APO.  The EVF can also be set up to provide a review - mine is set to 3 seconds, which is fine for a quick check of composition etc.

Wait for the next generation?  Yes, that's another option, but Leica never releases P versions with the initial offering and another D could be years away.  Also, there will always be a 'next generation' so by the time the M11-P is released people will be speculating about the M12, and so it goes on . . .