Close-up photography on a budget

[stevegaskin]

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Advice please. I want to try some close up photography, flowers, still life, just general experimenting, so don’t want at this stage to invest heavily in specialist lenses.  I have an M10 and a 28mm Elmarit, 50 mm Summarit and 90mm Elmarit-M.  Are screw-in close up lenses worth trying. Extension tubes used to be popular years ago but not sure how effective/available they are for m mount. . I don’t know much about the Elpro, does this have to be used with certain lenses?  All ideas/suggestions welcome
Thanks

[a.noctilux]

In a budget, it would be difficult because as is, the M10 is not easy to use for close-up with it's fix LV screen.

For better comfort, first thing to buy is the Visoflex, I use the old optical Visoflex III as I already have those.

Better yet it's the EVF called Visoflex 020 that is smaller/lighter and can be tilted.

After that, I can use Elpro, rings, bellows, adapted macro lenses for SLR, etc.

have a look in this thread to have ideas

- Leitz/Leica Elpro with adapter "x to E46" with your Elmarit-M 90mm would be the cheapest to try out (with LV of course)

I have excellent results with Elpro 3 and 75/90mm lenses = light setup for seldom use.

- in Wiki, Macro-Adapter-M can be nice

- with proper adapter, macro lenses from SLR (I use Olympus Macro 3.5/50mm, Micro-Nikkor, Zeiss Planar S 60mm, Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm, Apo 2.8/100mm , etc. )

 

Have fun ...

 

[stevegaskin]

44 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

In a budget, it would be difficult because as is, the M10 is not easy to use for close-up with it's fix LV screen.

For better comfort, first thing to buy is the Visoflex, I use the old optical Visoflex III as I already have those.

Better yet it's the EVF called Visoflex 020 that is smaller/lighter and can be tilted.

After that, I can use Elpro, rings, bellows, adapted macro lenses for SLR, etc.

have a look in this thread to have ideas

- Leitz/Leica Elpro with adapter "x to E46" with your Elmarit-M 90mm would be the cheapest to try out (with LV of course)

I have excellent results with Elpro 3 and 75/90mm lenses = light setup for seldom use.

- in Wiki, Macro-Adapter-M can be nice

- with proper adapter, macro lenses from SLR (I use Olympus Macro 3.5/50mm, Micro-Nikkor, Zeiss Planar S 60mm, Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm, Apo 2.8/100mm , etc. )

 

Have fun ...

 

Wow! Thanks for the comprehensive info’, I’ll investigate those option.   I guess initially I can just use LV without the need for a Visolflex, albeit a little less convenient with certain subjects.

Thanks again

Steve 

[Ko.Fe.]

M10 still possible with low price tag. Get FSU set of m39 close up rings, any FSU LTM lens and you are good via LV or EVF:

Both items are on eBay, not in boutiques:)

[Peter Kilmister]

As I understand it, even if you buy the M 90 lens with macro adapter all you get is a 90mm lens and an extension tube. I have an extension tube. I think it is called OUFORU or similar. These tubes are as cheap as chips and they do the job. You can use with any lens. Buy one and experiment. Best used with a tripod and LV (or an EVF) and a cable release. 

In summary, a bit of a toy ... but very useful for macro work if needed for a project. Most of the time it is something which will fill a corner of a cupboard.

[a.noctilux]

Peter, OUFRO/16469 (again from Wiki) is a simple extension ring 1.0cm thick M mount in each end.

 

[david strachan]

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Hi Steve

I like close-up too and do it several ways. 

Elpro and close-up meniscus lenses are good ...particularly the achromats (also made by Canon and Nikon, etc).

The best way I like is  with a 55mm Micro Nikkor lens, f3.5 or f2.8. Of course you need to buy the lens approx $150 and a Leica to Nikon adapter.

 

This lens is considered on of the best close up lenses available.  The nice thing is it's full range focusing from infinity to maximum close up, which gives about 1:2.  And you have a full range of close-up distances to your subject. Good for copying film negatives.

It balances quite well on my M240 and is good to focus using the EVF Visoflex.

 

Keep in mind close-up photography does not depend on continuous barrel  focusing...try to focus your composition then rock back and forward to get true focus before exposing.

...

[KFo]

I just went through a similar process, wanting to setup my M10P for macro photography.  Since I didn’t have a 90mm lens already, I chose to tool up a Macro Elmar 90 with a Macro-M Adapter.

I think the Macro-M adapter, even though it is a really neat piece, is almost useless for my purposes when used with the 90 macro.  The reason for that is the magnification setting accomplished by using the helical on the M adapter is not that important a function. You can change the image size by repositioning the camera.  So just get a fixed extension ring and be done with it.

 An extension ring set, the most economical available would be my suggestion now after my experience.

The macro setup on the M is fun to play with and the live view focusing works in a perfectly adequate fashion for my needs.

Regards,

Kevin

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Edited December 9, 2019 by KFo

[250swb]

14 hours ago, stevegaskin said:

....so don’t want at this stage to invest heavily in specialist lenses. 
 

You need to search eBay for an OUFRO and pair this with your 50mm and 90mm. Using LV focus with the lens aperture wide open to get critical focus, then close it down to your shooting aperture. You'll definitely need a good tripod (one with legs that can go high or very low in variable ground conditions) and either use the self timer or a cable release. It is remarkable what you can achieve with this simple setup. 

[RexGig0]

Threaded close-up lenses, that attach in the manner of filters, are usually of low quality. Multi-element close-up adapters with multiple elements, such as the Nikon 6T and Canon 500D, are much better, optically. I have a Nikon 6T, which has been a valid way to increase the magnification of a couple of my Nikon lenses, especially a Micro-Nikkor 70-180D zoom lens.

Extension tubes offer the advantage of not putting additional glass elements into the path of the light. I have never actually used extension tubes, though have bought a few, on the pre-owned market.

The older, manual-focus Micro-Nikkors are often available for very budget-friendly prices. I have not adapted them to Leica M cameras, but have adapted Nikon Nikkor F-mount lenses to Canon EOS EF cameras, with a Novoflex EOS/NIK adapter. Novoflex adapters are not inexpensive, as third-party adapters go, but are of high quality, and probably relatively inexpensive compared to anything with a Leitz or Leica brand on it.

[stevegaskin]

On 12/8/2019 at 11:40 PM, a.noctilux said:

Peter, OUFRO/16469 (again from Wiki) is a simple extension ring 1.0cm thick M mount in each end.

 

Hi, just to clarify, would this be the item? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-bit-10mm-extension-tube-ring-for-Leica-OUFRO-16469Y-M-M240-type-M6-M7-M8-M9-P/202817014750?hash=item2f38d60bde:g:FnEAAOxykUZTgYVS

[farnz]

3 hours ago, stevegaskin said:

Hi, just to clarify, would this be the item? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-bit-10mm-extension-tube-ring-for-Leica-OUFRO-16469Y-M-M240-type-M6-M7-M8-M9-P/202817014750?hash=item2f38d60bde:g:FnEAAOxykUZTgYVS

That's a repro of the Leica OUFRO and while there's nothing wrong with that the price looks higher than I'd be willing to pay (low price being the major benefit of repro's in my opinion) and machining tolerances can be off in 'bottom-end' repro's compared with the real deal OUFRO (although I'm not necessarily suggesting that's the case with this one).

OUFRO's used to be very affordable until the M240 with LiveView/EVF was released when their popularity and price went through the roof and it's taking quite some time for the price to settle down again (if it ever will).

Pete.

[250swb]

5 hours ago, farnz said:

That's a repro of the Leica OUFRO and while there's nothing wrong with that the price looks higher than I'd be willing to pay

It's a Jinfinance copy and their products are usually pretty good quality and a bit higher price than other knock-offs. Two things about it, according to the blurb it needs to be coded to work with an M240/M10 but it doesn't need coding, and as for tolerances it's only a spacer and close enough is good enough, the camera lens still does the focusing whether or not the OUFRO is a thousandth of an inch too thick or too thin.

[LocalHero1953]

I've had both the OUFRO and a copy - the engineering and manufacture of the OUFRO was a step up on the copy, though the latter worked. The copy doesn't have to be an exact 10mm extension, since you're using LV.

[LocalHero1953]

12 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

Threaded close-up lenses, that attach in the manner of filters, are usually of low quality. Multi-element close-up adapters with multiple elements, such as the Nikon 6T and Canon 500D, are much better, optically. I have a Nikon 6T, which has been a valid way to increase the magnification of a couple of my Nikon lenses, especially a Micro-Nikkor 70-180D zoom lens.

Extension tubes offer the advantage of not putting additional glass elements into the path of the light. I have never actually used extension tubes, though have bought a few, on the pre-owned market.

The older, manual-focus Micro-Nikkors are often available for very budget-friendly prices. I have not adapted them to Leica M cameras, but have adapted Nikon Nikkor F-mount lenses to Canon EOS EF cameras, with a Novoflex EOS/NIK adapter. Novoflex adapters are not inexpensive, as third-party adapters go, but are of high quality, and probably relatively inexpensive compared to anything with a Leitz or Leica brand on it.

A matter of judgement. I have one of the Marumi close up lens attachments to fit my 24-90SL zoom, and it gives good results. Now that I have the Apo-Macro-Elmarit 60TL it does not see much use, but in the absence of a dedicated macro lens I prefer (for convenience) adding an extra lens to the end to inserting an extension tube between lens and mount.

The practical disadvantage of the Marumi-typ close up attachment is that you need one for every lens with a different filter thread, whereas an extension tube, in theory at least, can be used with all lenses with the same mount. However, when I first got an OUFRO for my M240, I quickly discovered that you're better off with a longer focal length lens (>>50mm) than a shorter one, simply to get convenient working distances. I used mainly the Apo-Summicron-M 75mm because it already had a short close focus, but you still didn't have to push the end of your lens right into that bunch of flowers. There's a reason macro lenses tend to be made in 60mm or longer.

Edited December 11, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[stevegaskin]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.  Leica OUFRO's seem to be selling for around £120, the copy sells for around £60 so given the feedback might be worth a try.  

[astrostl]

Horses for courses IMO. If I personally cared about close-anything, I would use something other than an M for it. Same as I do for telephoto, video.

[stevegaskin]

So the 'Chinese' 10mm extension tube ring, Leica OUFRO 16469Y equivalent  has just arrived and attached are my first two 'test shots'.  Number one is the tube fitted to a 90mm Elmarit on my M10, and the second is using a 50mm Summarit on a CL body with an L-M adapter.  I'm quite pleased with these for my first attempt.

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[mmx_2]

I use OUFRO since some years and it’s a very convenient solution. Although I now have two original ones, I have also 3D printed several OUFRO. If you have access (or anyone else) have access to a 3D printer I can send you the files. Just send me a message. This will be your cheapest solution:).

My “OUFRO” is also available for purchase at Shapeways for those without printer.

Novoflex also offers a four ring screw together set which basically works like OUFRO, but I would not really recommend it because of vignetting problems and the fact that the lens does not always line up straight because of the rings being screwed together instead of bayonets.

Otherwise it’s still possible to find a visoflex 2 and bellows 2 for quite little money. You will of course need a lens, but with the proper adapter any M-Lens will work (even tough of course the Elmar 65 works a lot better). Skip the original view prism and just use the visoflex as “dummy” and use either LV or EVF.

For Elpro/screw in I have not so good experience except of course the Elpro for Apo Macro Elmarit 100 but I would hardly call that solution “budget” (it’s a fantastic lens however at any price).

The Elmarit 60 R is also still quite cheap (will of course require an adapter but the combo is definitely a very competent solution)! Look for a worn copy with clean glass and you can usually get a good bargain. The lens is extremely good and not that far after the Apo Macro 100 but at a much more reasonable price.

for macro in general i usually use the back screen of the M10 and LiveView. Set the magnification (fixed if you are using OUFRO) and focus by moving the camera. Occasionally i use the clip on viewfinder but the screen is also more than good enough for most cases. OUFRO can also be stacked for greater magnification.

I would actually say that the M10 (and likewise the M240) is very capable in terms of macro with the proper addons. The macro capability was one of the upgrade reasons from M8/M9 for me.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[stevegaskin]

On 12/31/2019 at 8:17 PM, mmx_2 said:

I use OUFRO since some years and it’s a very convenient solution. Although I now have two original ones, I have also 3D printed several OUFRO. If you have access (or anyone else) have access to a 3D printer I can send you the files. Just send me a message. This will be your cheapest solution:).

My “OUFRO” is also available for purchase at Shapeways for those without printer.

Novoflex also offers a four ring screw together set which basically works like OUFRO, but I would not really recommend it because of vignetting problems and the fact that the lens does not always line up straight because of the rings being screwed together instead of bayonets.

Otherwise it’s still possible to find a visoflex 2 and bellows 2 for quite little money. You will of course need a lens, but with the proper adapter any M-Lens will work (even tough of course the Elmar 65 works a lot better). Skip the original view prism and just use the visoflex as “dummy” and use either LV or EVF.

For Elpro/screw in I have not so good experience except of course the Elpro for Apo Macro Elmarit 100 but I would hardly call that solution “budget” (it’s a fantastic lens however at any price).

The Elmarit 60 R is also still quite cheap (will of course require an adapter but the combo is definitely a very competent solution)! Look for a worn copy with clean glass and you can usually get a good bargain. The lens is extremely good and not that far after the Apo Macro 100 but at a much more reasonable price.

for macro in general i usually use the back screen of the M10 and LiveView. Set the magnification (fixed if you are using OUFRO) and focus by moving the camera. Occasionally i use the clip on viewfinder but the screen is also more than good enough for most cases. OUFRO can also be stacked for greater magnification.

I would actually say that the M10 (and likewise the M240) is very capable in terms of macro with the proper addons. The macro capability was one of the upgrade reasons from M8/M9 for me.

Hi, thanks very much for your comprehensive reply and great suggestions. I need to do a little experimenting before I decide where I want to next 👍🏻