farnz Posted December 15, 2019 Share #41 Posted December 15, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, Jerry Attrik said: I have had, recently to open a cassette to retrieve the tongue of a film which had been partly exposed and then fully wound back. in case you're not aware, there are inexpensive gizmos that will retrieve the tongue in broad daylight without needing to open the cassette at all. Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 15, 2019 Posted December 15, 2019 Hi farnz, Take a look here Lines on negatives - Leica iiia. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jerry Attrik Posted December 16, 2019 Share #42 Posted December 16, 2019 11 hours ago, farnz said: in case you're not aware, there are inexpensive gizmos that will retrieve the tongue in broad daylight without needing to open the cassette at all. Pete. Quite right, Pete. Unfortunately I harbour a bit of a paranoia about scratches and reared that film damage may occur and, perhaps worse, damage to the light seal at the cassette mouth. I have had negatives which have produced black hair-lines along a print. That is just me! But the exercise I am looking at is to see if a loaded commercial cassette spool will work in a David. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted December 18, 2019 Share #43 Posted December 18, 2019 On 12/16/2019 at 9:48 AM, farnz said: in case you're not aware, there are inexpensive gizmos that will retrieve the tongue in broad daylight without needing to open the cassette at all. Pete. I have used the technique shown in this youTube video - worked every time for me 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibanez Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share #44 Posted February 11, 2020 Hi all. So to revive this thread, the roll came out with the lines again. I have sent the camera to Youxin Ye for a full CLA and to have both shutters replaced. I will let you know the results when the camera has returned and I’ve put a roll through it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Attrik Posted February 11, 2020 Share #45 Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) I have just re-read this entry ( #52 ) 16 Dec. 2019, and think I must have been a little blotto at the time. The idea was to see if a, commercial, loaded cassette spool would function in a FILCA shell On 15 Dec. 2019 #48 I was about to use a 24 exp. cassette of FP4. FAILED. The ends of the cassettes are now very firmly fixed to the cassette body, spot welded I think. Haaa!-well, on now to 'plan G' David Edited February 11, 2020 by Jerry Attrik missing information from a previous post 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted January 30, 2022 Share #46 Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) On 12/4/2019 at 3:53 PM, jerzy said: there could be many reasons for black stripes. I concentrate on those resulting from camera, this is something what I understand in contrary to developing and scanning. If you see stripes between the frames, along the whole film than (most probably) film pressure plate is scratching it, or especially if scratches are at the beginning or end of the film than there is something in film transport causing scratches. If the stripes occur on selected frames, faster speeds and on bright places than shutter/shutter curtains is most probable cause. The slid width on screwmount is approx 1,2mm at 1/1000, 2,4 at 1/500, etc. on properly adjusted camera. Photo below shows example of curtain producing thin black stripes at higher speeds. Another reason could be that the edge is uneven, happens especially on replaced curtains if not properly glued. Black stripes will be wider then. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Problem occurs however with higher speeds only, when the "hairs" cover the whole or major part of the slid. There could be some temporarily solutions for this problem but the ultimate is to replace affected curtain. Jerzy, Is this able to be visualised in an intact camera or do you have to partly dismantle it to get visual access (to the edges of both curtains). Also what are you referring to when you use the term "slid" Edited January 30, 2022 by romualdo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted January 30, 2022 Share #47 Posted January 30, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) I made an error, it should have been "slit", distance between the curtains when exposing. It is much better an easier to check the condition of curtains if camera is partially dismanteled, body cover taken off (on Ms it is enough to open the backdor. But firstly observe the negatives/print for existence of stripes. Best is to shot bright beckground (sky for ex) at short speeds, 1/1000 or 1/500, best would be to underexpose the shots, so that the sky will be darker. On LTMs you may also do following: insert white paper instead of film, set slow speeds to T and release the shutter. Shutter will remain opened. Then slowly wind and observe the edge of opening curtain, you will see "hairs" is there are any. Most probably you will see as well if the enge in uneven. If the camera does not have slow speeds set speed dial to B (Z), release the shutter to open if and then hold closing curtain (finger, stick, etc). Then wind and observe the curtain egde as above. To inspect the edge of closing curtain do as above but hold closing curtain in the middle of the frame approx. If anything unclear in my explanations let me know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted January 30, 2022 Share #48 Posted January 30, 2022 2 hours ago, jerzy said: I made an error, it should have been "slit", distance between the curtains when exposing. It is much better an easier to check the condition of curtains if camera is partially dismanteled, body cover taken off (on Ms it is enough to open the backdor. But firstly observe the negatives/print for existence of stripes. Best is to shot bright beckground (sky for ex) at short speeds, 1/1000 or 1/500, best would be to underexpose the shots, so that the sky will be darker. On LTMs you may also do following: insert white paper instead of film, set slow speeds to T and release the shutter. Shutter will remain opened. Then slowly wind and observe the edge of opening curtain, you will see "hairs" is there are any. Most probably you will see as well if the enge in uneven. If the camera does not have slow speeds set speed dial to B (Z), release the shutter to open if and then hold closing curtain (finger, stick, etc). Then wind and observe the curtain egde as above. To inspect the edge of closing curtain do as above but hold closing curtain in the middle of the frame approx. If anything unclear in my explanations let me know. Thanks very much Jerzy - I have a IIIg that at high shutter speeds (1/1000 & maybe 1/500) creates black lines/stripes - only two out of 36 images from the roll had these lines (see my previous posts regarding this) - I'm suspecting it may be ragged curtain edges - I've done as you have suggested "insert white paper instead of film, set slow speeds to T and release the shutter. Shutter will remain opened. Then slowly wind and observe the edge of opening curtain, you will see "hairs" is there are any" - I can't see any hairs or unevenness of the edge - it all looks very clean and neat (see first pic). I'm not 100% sure of what you mean regarding the closing curtain edge but is that what I've taken in the second shot (can't see any hairs or unevenness there either if that is indeed the edge of the closing curtain Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304007-lines-on-negatives-leica-iiia/?do=findComment&comment=4372035'>More sharing options...
jerzy Posted January 31, 2022 Share #49 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) your opening curtain looks ggos as it is on your upper photo. In order to examine the closing curtain do as shown on the right photo below: speed at B, press and hold release, insert pencil in the frame, right side, release button off. Closing curtain will close but will be held by the pencil, you will be able to examine the edge. Here I wound a bit with pencil in, as well a possibility to examine both curtain edges at the same time. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! But to be honest - curtains in your camera look good, I do not think they are the reason for the stripes. Can you post sample photo showing them? Edited January 31, 2022 by jerzy Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! But to be honest - curtains in your camera look good, I do not think they are the reason for the stripes. Can you post sample photo showing them? ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304007-lines-on-negatives-leica-iiia/?do=findComment&comment=4372679'>More sharing options...
romualdo Posted January 31, 2022 Share #50 Posted January 31, 2022 Jerzy, here's one of the shots taken @ 1/1000 sec on the IIIg - note the vertical lines - only two of the shots from the roll had these "lines" Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304007-lines-on-negatives-leica-iiia/?do=findComment&comment=4372727'>More sharing options...
jerzy Posted January 31, 2022 Share #51 Posted January 31, 2022 possibly there are 2 problems related to shutter/curtains. If you move the finger accross the edge - does it feel smooth or rough? Fabric used mid 50-ties tends to degrade in a way that it breaks on the edge where it is bent, does not have hairs but is uneven, sort of bumps. It should feel smooth. When I magnify your photo I have an impression like your curtains suffer this. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And additionaly I believe that the shutter is slightly capping. Was the camera rotated left when you shot it, i.e. wind knob was upwards, rewind downwards? I am pretty sure that you will not notice this effect with 1/250, probably neither with1/500. And one thing more - very often this is opening curtain which is too slow when shutter becomes sticky. With the scond and third shot in a short time it may run faster for some time and will not produce stripes. In any case - either you will avoid 1/1000 or let your camera be checked, pitty that you live on the other side of the globe 🙂 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And additionaly I believe that the shutter is slightly capping. Was the camera rotated left when you shot it, i.e. wind knob was upwards, rewind downwards? I am pretty sure that you will not notice this effect with 1/250, probably neither with1/500. And one thing more - very often this is opening curtain which is too slow when shutter becomes sticky. With the scond and third shot in a short time it may run faster for some time and will not produce stripes. In any case - either you will avoid 1/1000 or let your camera be checked, pitty that you live on the other side of the globe 🙂 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304007-lines-on-negatives-leica-iiia/?do=findComment&comment=4372984'>More sharing options...
Al Brown Posted January 31, 2022 Share #52 Posted January 31, 2022 Check out 06:09 in this video. He said the paint scratched the negative as the film was being transported, shows similar results. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted February 1, 2022 Share #53 Posted February 1, 2022 9 hours ago, jerzy said: possibly there are 2 problems related to shutter/curtains. If you move the finger accross the edge - does it feel smooth or rough? Fabric used mid 50-ties tends to degrade in a way that it breaks on the edge where it is bent, does not have hairs but is uneven, sort of bumps. It should feel smooth. When I magnify your photo I have an impression like your curtains suffer this. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And additionaly I believe that the shutter is slightly capping. Was the camera rotated left when you shot it, i.e. wind knob was upwards, rewind downwards? I am pretty sure that you will not notice this effect with 1/250, probably neither with1/500. And one thing more - very often this is opening curtain which is too slow when shutter becomes sticky. With the scond and third shot in a short time it may run faster for some time and will not produce stripes. In any case - either you will avoid 1/1000 or let your camera be checked, pitty that you live on the other side of the globe 🙂 Jerzy, I checked the closing curtain edge as you recommended in post #49 -> all fine there (edge is smooth & no hairs visualised) I've rechecked the opening curtain again - it feels smooth & no sensation of "bumpiness" - I've taken a further enlarged pic & attached it here I can see what you're referring to re mild shutter capping (the uppermost part of the sky is darker) - I can't remember which way I was holding the camera vertically but most likely turned to the left as you suggested No issues here in Australia with servicing these old Leicas - I have someone here in Brisbane plus another great service shop in Melbourne. The IIIg has been waiting for a CLA - it's next in line - hopefully that will sort this small issue (first world problem !!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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