albertknappmd Posted November 9, 2019 Share #21 Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I may use it as a "spare" body in the future with my S kit. Albert Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited November 9, 2019 by albertknappmd 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303261-can-the-new-sl-compete-or-even-sostitute-in-some-fields-the-s/?do=findComment&comment=3851387'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 9, 2019 Posted November 9, 2019 Hi albertknappmd, Take a look here Can the new SL compete or even sostitute in some fields the S?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
albertknappmd Posted November 9, 2019 Share #22 Posted November 9, 2019 I may use it as a "spare" body in the future with my S kit. Albert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted November 9, 2019 Share #23 Posted November 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, albertknappmd said: I may use it as a "spare" body in the future with my S kit. Albert Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Is this shot with the SL2 or S? (Beautiful shot). I'm confused by the sequence of the comments. Thanks, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted November 9, 2019 Share #24 Posted November 9, 2019 55 minutes ago, ZHNL said: i did preorder SL2 myself, but I know what I will get and what the difference is. Hi ZHNL, On topic: I don’t doubt your words, but out of interest, how would you describe the difference between the SL line and the S line? I mean in terms of resulting image, the look of the photo? (leaving out acuity, sharpness fall off, 14/16 bit, AF and all that) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted November 9, 2019 Share #25 Posted November 9, 2019 54 minutes ago, peterv said: Hi ZHNL, On topic: I don’t doubt your words, but out of interest, how would you describe the difference between the SL line and the S line? I mean in terms of resulting image, the look of the photo? (leaving out acuity, sharpness fall off, 14/16 bit, AF and all that) I didn't buy SL, but I used it a few times when it first introduced and during I drop my S to Leica Store SF to have them serviced. At that time, I determined it was not good enough for me to spend the money, mainly the ergonomic and EVF and of course file quality are not better than other system I had. It was simply not competitive enough. I also have to admit I was not a fan of EVF based camera. I am still not, but after force myself spend more time with Z7 and PanaS1, I have to say I do enjoy some of benefits they give me and also those implementation are indeed way better than EVF cameras I tried before. Given SL2 will offer native M (which I will never part with) and S support, and I do like most part of Panasonic S1 give me, why not just preorder it. I do have experience from all major FF brand other than Canon. I used Sony A7R up to A7rII and D800 till D850 and now Z7 and Panasonic S1. General speaking, if I have to pick one FF file out of them all, it is D850. Not sharpness but smooth and analog feel of file and robustness of file during process. Z7 might have slightly more sharpness and more vivid color out of LR but it also has more stuff(digital correction) build in RAW files especially using LR. It may look more impressive(digital) on net but just less analog natural feel to the file IMHO. Then, this exact same argument can be applied to comparing S006/007 files to D850 files. I don’t want drag myself into this debate about how superior S files are, especially doing A/B demo that just like I don’t want drag myself deep into debate about S007 and S006 color. (From S006 to S007, there is at least one less reason to stick with S: color. but that is just my personal opinion, I hope S3 correct that) However, I spend too much time working on all the raw files from different manufactures, I brought D850 or Z7 and S006/007 on multiple trips. Worked with those files, I am pretty confident on what I am seeing, and that is enough for me to make decision. I have said about those merits such as tonality, rendering, focus transition etc…many times and it is up to individuals to get it or trust it Or just ignore what I said. I really don’t mind at all. As I mentioned here, in term of technical performance, SL prime seems representing the top performance Leica can achieve. I can see this will be main focus Leica is aiming right now and its superb performances are clearly showed from published MTF curve. SL glasses are technical better than S glasses. I have no argument on that. As a side note, that is also not a news to me, as there are other FF glasses are already better corrected and having better sharpness than S glasses for a while and I also happen to own or owned one or two or a few of those. (Sigma art and OTUS) Even Nikon Z primes are superb at much smaller size and price. But sharpness and color correction are only part of story to contribute final images look, S glasses along with format size and 16 bit are special, special enough for me to take the size, weight and ancient single focus point body over anything else I have used. I really don’t have any use for anything sharper than S glasses. They are enough. Again, if we just sit down and do paper analysis, then, no joke, A7RIV seems a perfect solution for that matter. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanD Posted November 9, 2019 Share #26 Posted November 9, 2019 The S has superb lenses but I recently sold my S006 for a GFX100. While I preferred the S006 to the GFX50, the GFX100 has superb tonality (beyond resolution) with both native glass and adapted glass. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocean2059 Posted November 10, 2019 Share #27 Posted November 10, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, ZHNL said: I didn't buy SL, but I used it a few times when it first introduced and during I drop my S to Leica Store SF to have them serviced. At that time, I determined it was not good enough for me to spend the money, mainly the ergonomic and EVF and of course file quality are not better than other system I had. It was simply not competitive enough. I also have to admit I was not a fan of EVF based camera. I am still not, but after force myself spend more time with Z7 and PanaS1, I have to say I do enjoy some of benefits they give me and also those implementation are indeed way better than EVF cameras I tried before. Given SL2 will offer native M (which I will never part with) and S support, and I do like most part of Panasonic S1 give me, why not just preorder it. I do have experience from all major FF brand other than Canon. I used Sony A7R up to A7rII and D800 till D850 and now Z7 and Panasonic S1. General speaking, if I have to pick one FF file out of them all, it is D850. Not sharpness but smooth and analog feel of file and robustness of file during process. Z7 might have slightly more sharpness and more vivid color out of LR but it also has more stuff(digital correction) build in RAW files especially using LR. It may look more impressive(digital) on net but just less analog natural feel to the file IMHO. Then, this exact same argument can be applied to comparing S006/007 files to D850 files. I don’t want drag myself into this debate about how superior S files are, especially doing A/B demo that just like I don’t want drag myself deep into debate about S007 and S006 color. (From S006 to S007, there is at least one less reason to stick with S: color. but that is just my personal opinion, I hope S3 correct that) However, I spend too much time working on all the raw files from different manufactures, I brought D850 or Z7 and S006/007 on multiple trips. Worked with those files, I am pretty confident on what I am seeing, and that is enough for me to make decision. I have said about those merits such as tonality, rendering, focus transition etc…many times and it is up to individuals to get it or trust it Or just ignore what I said. I really don’t mind at all. As I mentioned here, in term of technical performance, SL prime seems representing the top performance Leica can achieve. I can see this will be main focus Leica is aiming right now and its superb performances are clearly showed from published MTF curve. SL glasses are technical better than S glasses. I have no argument on that. As a side note, that is also not a news to me, as there are other FF glasses are already better corrected and having better sharpness than S glasses for a while and I also happen to own or owned one or two or a few of those. (Sigma art and OTUS) Even Nikon Z primes are superb at much smaller size and price. But sharpness and color correction are only part of story to contribute final images look, S glasses along with format size and 16 bit are special, special enough for me to take the size, weight and ancient single focus point body over anything else I have used. I really don’t have any use for anything sharper than S glasses. They are enough. Again, if we just sit down and do paper analysis, then, no joke, A7RIV seems a perfect solution for that matter. I'm in full agreement with what Micheal said above. I have been using S2 with a set of S lenses (35/75/120/180) for about 5 years and earlier this year I started using SL with SL lenses (24-90 and 50/1.4). I must admit that the SL lenses are excellent, but they have very different look compared with both M and S lenses. To my eyes, SL lenses have very modern look and very digital, where as S lenses have more pleasing look and smoother color transitions. For me, S lenses are special and I am looking forward to seeing what the new S3 will bring. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted November 10, 2019 Share #28 Posted November 10, 2019 50 minutes ago, ocean2059 said: I'm in full agreement with what Micheal said above. I have been using S2 with a set of S lenses (35/75/120/180) for about 5 years and earlier this year I started using SL with SL lenses (24-90 and 50/1.4). I must admit that the SL lenses are excellent, but they have very different look compared with both M and S lenses. To my eyes, SL lenses have very modern look and very digital, where as S lenses have more pleasing look and smoother color transitions. For me, S lenses are special and I am looking forward to seeing what the new S3 will bring. Agree with everyone above, that the look is different - I think of it as more dimensional - without that modern edge that the SL lenses have. I'm also curious as to how the S lenses look on the SL2. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted November 10, 2019 Share #29 Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) On 11/8/2019 at 6:37 PM, ZHNL said: I think i can safely say SL2 will compete well with S007 for pixel and DR. Then, there is 64M S3 coming, IQ comparison wise, it would be very similar to SL1 and S007 again. however, TBH, S’s selling point was never pixels counts, at least for past 5 years, but SLR form with OVF, and file rendering which include lens rendering and 16 bit file. S glasses do have look that most FF offers missing. As much as I like 50APO m which was credited to have MF look, I prefer 70mm on S, though at much bigger size. It was a relaxed feel, smoother rendering, gentle transition make S shine. I agree, the bo-keh of an S can never be beaten by any FF camera. For workflow of course, for instance marriage, sports, wildlife, the SL2 is much handier and more allround and especially if you work for clients. I don’t work for clients, so if I already owned an S I would never change it for an SL2. Whereas I would change my SL for an S. Edited November 10, 2019 by otto.f 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted November 10, 2019 Share #30 Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, ropo54 said: I'm also curious as to how the S lenses look on the SL2. That won’t be very exciting I can predict. If you want the bokeh of an S on FF you’ll need at least a Noctilux 75 or 50. And then still, it will never render so smoothly. Fujifilm does not deliver that S-look on MF either. Edited November 10, 2019 by otto.f 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuc Posted November 10, 2019 Share #31 Posted November 10, 2019 4 hours ago, otto.f said: That won’t be very exciting I can predict. If you want the bokeh of an S on FF you’ll need at least a Noctilux 75 or 50. And then still, it will never render so smoothly. Fujifilm does not deliver that S-look on MF either. Can you post AB test pics to proof these two assumptions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted November 10, 2019 Share #32 Posted November 10, 2019 4 hours ago, otto.f said: That won’t be very exciting I can predict.If you want the bokeh of an S on FF you’ll need at least a Noctilux 75 or 50. And then still, it will never render so smoothly. Fujifilm does not deliver that S-look on MF either. I tend to agree with you that the S files are not duplicatable in most circumstances by full frame. Still, the first 2 shots below are some close shots taken by the S 100 f2 using the SL. Perhaps these are closer in look to the M75 1.4/R80 1.4. The bottom 2 shots were taken with the S007 with S100 and S120, respectively. You decide, but I tend to agree with otto.f that there is just something different, richer, in the S shots comparative to full frame. I call it more "dimensionality" in the photos. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303261-can-the-new-sl-compete-or-even-sostitute-in-some-fields-the-s/?do=findComment&comment=3851867'>More sharing options...
otto.f Posted November 10, 2019 Share #33 Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) @ chrismuc You can easily see that when you look at the thread in this forum on photo’s from the S, you can look at flickr for the gfx50 and the Nikon Z7 for instance, which has 47Mp too. Edited November 10, 2019 by otto.f Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuc Posted November 10, 2019 Share #34 Posted November 10, 2019 these are misc. pics, not an AB test. different motives, different lighting, different pp, so impossible to evaluate a direct comparison Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted November 10, 2019 Share #35 Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) On 11/9/2019 at 9:47 AM, chrismuc said: As mentioned before, IMO the next gen. S is mainly interesting for current S owners but will hardly convince new users to invest in the Leica S ecosystem. I agree in the sense that I would only buy a second hand S, a new S3 in the same price range as the former S’s is very hard to conceive as a rival for the SL2. But if I can get a second hand S with a 70mm for the same price as a SL2 new body only, I’m not yet convinced enough to go for the SL2. First impressions of jono’s pictures give me a quite digital look. So far.... I might go for a CL if I get that sort of images. Edited November 10, 2019 by otto.f 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuc Posted November 10, 2019 Share #36 Posted November 10, 2019 Unfortunately I neither can provide AB comparison pictures between systems respectively formats but maybe you can try to assume the sensor formats of the following six images. Four different (digital) formats: APS-C, 135, 44x33, 645 (54x40). IMO it is possible with any of these sensor formats and the according lenses to achieve nice bokeh and rendering. It very much depends on the light. 01 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303261-can-the-new-sl-compete-or-even-sostitute-in-some-fields-the-s/?do=findComment&comment=3851927'>More sharing options...
chrismuc Posted November 10, 2019 Share #37 Posted November 10, 2019 02 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303261-can-the-new-sl-compete-or-even-sostitute-in-some-fields-the-s/?do=findComment&comment=3851928'>More sharing options...
chrismuc Posted November 10, 2019 Share #38 Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 03 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited November 10, 2019 by chrismuc 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303261-can-the-new-sl-compete-or-even-sostitute-in-some-fields-the-s/?do=findComment&comment=3851929'>More sharing options...
chrismuc Posted November 10, 2019 Share #39 Posted November 10, 2019 04 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303261-can-the-new-sl-compete-or-even-sostitute-in-some-fields-the-s/?do=findComment&comment=3851930'>More sharing options...
chrismuc Posted November 10, 2019 Share #40 Posted November 10, 2019 05 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303261-can-the-new-sl-compete-or-even-sostitute-in-some-fields-the-s/?do=findComment&comment=3851932'>More sharing options...
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