Image quality comparison between Hasselblad X1D II and Leica SL2

[sillbeers15]

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1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

As I was looking at the rendering of the XCD 80/1.9, I couldn't help thinking that's it's sharp like a Summicron but blurs the background like an f/1.4 lens. Hence, the idea came to my mind that I could compare it to the 75 Summicron-SL.  After all, the FOV between a 75 mm and a 63 mm (FF equivalent) lens is closer than that of 63 mm (FF equivalent) lens and a 50 mm one.  Besides, didn't Leica raise and tighten that freakin' contrast curve on the SL Summicron lenses that they supposedly separate the subject more like an f/1.4 lens?  I chose a scene here where the distance of the subject to the background won't matter for blur much to even the playing field.  Keep in mind, we only want to examine the subject separation effect of the 75 Summicron-SL vs. an f/1.4 FF equivalent lens by another maker.

I want to say that shooting the two combos side be side today, the only advantage I could see in the X1D IQ was the colors and this is due the fact, as I understand, that Hasselblad calibrates the sensor with thousands of color profiles and the X1D outputs a pseudo 16-bit file with them.  The SL2 colors require more work in post.  As stated, I didn't do or won't show any close-ups where that bokehlicous OOF rendering of the XCD 80/1.9 shows, but I also won't show any of the fringing of this lens in the OOF areas which is always very pronounced if one looks closely, even in this example here. 

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-s7N2tR/. I gave both pictures a bit of a warmer look.

X1D II + XCD 80/1.9 (nice colors out-of-the-box, slightly cropped at the top only, very little adjustments otherwise).  Don't look at the fringing in the OOF areas.

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ISO 100 f/1.9 @1/350 sec.

SL2 + 75 Summicron-SL (required some tweaking of colors, WB, and calibration in post to try to match X1D II).  Beautiful f/1.4-like subject separation.

ISO 100 f/2 @1/320 sec.

 

Once again a great thanks for providing all the comparison pictures of X1DII vs SL2!

These allow the viewers to form their own opinion of which is better (or not) plus the magnitude of variation without any biases.👍

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[brunner]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Chaemono:

As I was looking at the rendering of the XCD 80/1.9, I couldn't help thinking that's it's sharp like a Summicron but blurs the background like an f/1.4 lens. Hence, the idea came to my mind that I could compare it to the 75 Summicron-SL.  After all, the FOV between a 75 mm and a 63 mm (FF equivalent) lens is closer than that of 63 mm (FF equivalent) lens and a 50 mm one.  Besides, didn't Leica raise and tighten that freakin' contrast curve on the SL Summicron lenses that they supposedly separate the subject more like an f/1.4 lens?  I chose a scene here where the distance of the subject to the background won't matter for blur much to even the playing field.  Keep in mind, we only want to examine the subject separation effect of the 75 Summicron-SL vs. an f/1.4 FF equivalent lens by another maker.

I want to say that shooting the two combos side be side today, the only advantage I could see in the X1D IQ was the colors and this is due the fact, as I understand, that Hasselblad calibrates the sensor with thousands of color profiles and the X1D outputs a pseudo 16-bit file with them.  The SL2 colors require more work in post.  As stated, I didn't do or won't show any close-ups where that bokehlicous OOF rendering of the XCD 80/1.9 shows, but I also won't show any of the fringing of this lens in the OOF areas which is always very pronounced if one looks closely, even in this example here. 

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-s7N2tR/. I gave both pictures a bit of a warmer look.

X1D II + XCD 80/1.9 (nice colors out-of-the-box, slightly cropped at the top only, very little adjustments otherwise).  Don't look at the fringing in the OOF areas.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

ISO 100 f/1.9 @1/350 sec.

SL2 + 75 Summicron-SL (required some tweaking of colors, WB, and calibration in post to try to match X1D II).  Beautiful f/1.4-like subject separation.

ISO 100 f/2 @1/320 sec.

 

As Iˋm contemplating either to add a x1d or a Sl to my QP this thread is very helpful. Thank you for all the examples. My own testshots give me a similar expression. Leica is bit more crisp and the X1d has a bit more of depth...

Edited January 12, 2020 by brunner

[vanhulsenbeek]

On 12/18/2019 at 2:48 PM, m9photo said:

Believe it or not, I put on cheap Rokinon 14/2.8 Canon mount on the SL. It's the best lens for astro (for the price which you can get for $200 used).

LENR kills the party on SL for Astro.

I respectfully beg to differ. The Astro word now is "Stacking"  no and the SL results with LENR are very useable.

See, including next post 12: 

 

[m9photo]

@Chaemono if you are to start from scratch, which camera would you choose?

[sillbeers15]

The YouTube link below is a comparison between  Two full frame cameras (Sony A7RIII & Leica M10) vs Hassy X1D. In the video clip, there are various image comparisons from indoor to outdoor shots, portraits to automobile to landscape shots comparisons. You can ignore the foreign language (Chinese) and the pictures tell the story. The difference between the images produced from MF to FF is insignificant (especially high pixel FF to that of MF). 
 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sony+a7r+x1d+m10&&view=detail&mid=B22989FDE111349FA569B22989FDE111349FA569&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsony%2520a7r%2520x1d%2520m10%26qs%3Dn%26form%3DQBVR%26sp%3D-1%26pq%3Dsony%2520a7r%2520x1d%2520m10%26sc%3D0-16%26sk%3D%26cvid%3D3D8185BAFB9044B3A6A0B60109DA3168

[insideline]

43 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

The YouTube link below is a comparison between  Two full frame cameras (Sony A7RIII & Leica M10) vs Hassy X1D. In the video clip, there are various image comparisons from indoor to outdoor shots, portraits to automobile to landscape shots comparisons. You can ignore the foreign language (Chinese) and the pictures tell the story. The difference between the images produced from MF to FF is insignificant (especially high pixel FF to that of MF). 
 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sony+a7r+x1d+m10&&view=detail&mid=B22989FDE111349FA569B22989FDE111349FA569&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsony%2520a7r%2520x1d%2520m10%26qs%3Dn%26form%3DQBVR%26sp%3D-1%26pq%3Dsony%2520a7r%2520x1d%2520m10%26sc%3D0-16%26sk%3D%26cvid%3D3D8185BAFB9044B3A6A0B60109DA3168

I am sorry, first the comparison is with the original and now not available for sale for almost a year X1D, not the faster X1D2 body, then he says no fast lenses, so what about the 80 1.9 lens which is close to Noctilux speed in 35mm. The difference in image quality, dynamic range and the sheer amount of information contained in the X1D medium format sensor is significantly superior to the Leica SL2, M10. I do own both the X1D2 and the SL2 and I have shot thousands of images with both, mostly portraiture. There simply is a greater amount of small detail along with a notable greater amount of dynamic range resolved in the medium format image and if the math does not support this then I am not sure what to say. The Leica is a faster and more flexible system each and every time this is a certainty, yet the Hasselblad is my choice when I desire the finest image for photography's sake and this is the reason why I most often take the X1D2 camera. Two stunning cameras and platforms for sure, but to say the difference is insignificant is simply not factual.

[sillbeers15]

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45 minutes ago, insideline said:

I am sorry, first the comparison is with the original and now not available for sale for almost a year X1D, not the faster X1D2 body, then he says no fast lenses, so what about the 80 1.9 lens which is close to Noctilux speed in 35mm. The difference in image quality, dynamic range and the sheer amount of information contained in the X1D medium format sensor is significantly superior to the Leica SL2, M10. I do own both the X1D2 and the SL2 and I have shot thousands of images with both, mostly portraiture. There simply is a greater amount of small detail along with a notable greater amount of dynamic range resolved in the medium format image and if the math does not support this then I am not sure what to say. The Leica is a faster and more flexible system each and every time this is a certainty, yet the Hasselblad is my choice when I desire the finest image for photography's sake and this is the reason why I most often take the X1D2 camera. Two stunning cameras and platforms for sure, but to say the difference is insignificant is simply not factual.

Surely you form your own opinion and I respect that. I am merely sharing a video link with comparing images from FF & MF cameras for all to view and form their own opinions.

[setuporg]

I shoot Leica S 007 and Hasselblad X1D i&ii and now added the SL2, while using M10 all along.  The S and X1D resolve differently and I can't help coming back to the S, even though it's now lesser resolution than SL2, 37 MP vs 47 MP!  There's just something about larger optics and pixels.

[Chaemono]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb m9photo:

@Chaemono if you are to start from scratch, which camera would you choose?

Hypothetical because I could only choose the X1D II as the first camera if slow speed of operations, slow AF, and fringing don’t matter, and rich, deep colors ‘out-of-the-box‘ matter which imposes too many limitations.  

[setuporg]

50 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Hypothetical because I could only choose the X1D II as the first camera if slow speed of operations, slow AF, and fringing don’t matter, and rich, deep colors ‘out-of-the-box‘ matter which imposes too many limitations.  

I'm now concerned that forest of of the box is weird with SL2, and highlights are blown...  DR is really better on the X1D and the S, and I dunno what's worse, bleached highlights or fringing.  The Noctilux 0.95 does a lot of fringing but so what...  I'm not prepared to write off everything not done with an APO lens.

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb setuporg:

I'm now concerned that forest of of the box is weird with SL2, and highlights are blown...  DR is really better on the X1D and the S, and I dunno what's worse, bleached highlights or fringing. 

I’ll need to shoot some “branches and busyness” like someone described your 600 test shots with both cameras to see whether EV -1/3 or -2/3 on the SL2 takes care of what you observed. Highlight detail recovery at base ISO is fantastic with the SL2, but not at the level of the X1D II.  For my needs, this does not tip the scale in favor of this mirrorless Hasselblad.  I don’t shoot landscapes.  If I were, I’d use bracketing on the SL2. 

vor einer Stunde schrieb setuporg:

The Noctilux 0.95 does a lot of fringing but so what... 

Let’s not even get into the vast amount of lenses that can be used on the SL2.

vor einer Stunde schrieb setuporg:

I'm not prepared to write off everything not done with an APO lens.

Modern FF lenses these days don’t fringe, not from Panasonic, not from Sony, and not from Nikon.

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb setuporg:

I'm now concerned that forest of of the box is weird with SL2, and highlights are blown...  DR is really better on the X1D and the S, and I dunno what's worse, bleached highlights or fringing. 

I’ll need to shoot some “branches and busyness” like someone described your 600 test shots with both cameras to see whether EV -1/3 or -2/3 on the SL2 takes care of what you observed. Highlight detail recovery at base ISO is fantastic with the SL2, but not at the level of the X1D II.  For my needs, this does not tip the scale in favor of this mirrorless Hasselblad.  I don’t shoot landscapes.  If I were, I’d use bracketing on the SL2. 

vor einer Stunde schrieb setuporg:

The Noctilux 0.95 does a lot of fringing but so what... 

Let’s not even get into the vast amount of lenses that can be used on the SL2.

vor einer Stunde schrieb setuporg:

I'm not prepared to write off everything not done with an APO lens.

Modern FF lenses these days don’t fringe, not from Panasonic, not from Sony, and not from Nikon.

[sillbeers15]

27 minutes ago, setuporg said:

I'm now concerned that forest of of the box is weird with SL2, and highlights are blown...  DR is really better on the X1D and the S, and I dunno what's worse, bleached highlights or fringing.  The Noctilux 0.95 does a lot of fringing but so what...  I'm not prepared to write off everything not done with an APO lens.

You mean the exposure on SL2 cannot be controlled? Or graduated ND filters can be used to drop blown highlight situations. I would dial down the exposure for shots which I intend to post process. At Low ISO, the DR of SL2 works great to bring the image to the artistic intend.

[Agent M10]

10 hours ago, insideline said:

I am sorry, first the comparison is with the original and now not available for sale for almost a year X1D, not the faster X1D2 body, then he says no fast lenses, so what about the 80 1.9 lens which is close to Noctilux speed in 35mm. The difference in image quality, dynamic range and the sheer amount of information contained in the X1D medium format sensor is significantly superior to the Leica SL2, M10. I do own both the X1D2 and the SL2 and I have shot thousands of images with both, mostly portraiture. There simply is a greater amount of small detail along with a notable greater amount of dynamic range resolved in the medium format image and if the math does not support this then I am not sure what to say. The Leica is a faster and more flexible system each and every time this is a certainty, yet the Hasselblad is my choice when I desire the finest image for photography's sake and this is the reason why I most often take the X1D2 camera. Two stunning cameras and platforms for sure, but to say the difference is insignificant is simply not factual.

How 'bout show and not just tell? I have an SL2, but not an X1D2, so I'd be interested in seeing the "greater amount of small detail along with a notable greater amount of dynamic range." I'm not being catty about this. If such differences are there, I might consider buying into the Hasselblad system. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Agent M10

[sebas_]

I have decided finally to jump to the SL 2 all in. Will pick up the camera on Friday, as I have found an unit in stock. 

I was using a Fuji GFX50R, with which I do not enjoy shooting that much. Formerly I had a X1D original, wich was a more shooting joy, but was lacking other features, which I needed. And no Capture One support is also an issue for me. 

I think the SL2 is a great camera, as it has a fine quality, exceptional glass and I can adapt almost all glass to it somehow, which I need as well (TS-E). Furthermore I can shoot high quality video with it too, which is a nice bonus as well. 

If I need medium format again - I maybe lean more towards the new Leica S or a Phase One unit. 

Interesting to see the new Hasselblad 45P released today....

 

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by sebas_

[Jeff S]

10 hours ago, setuporg said:

I'm now concerned that forest of of the box is weird with SL2, and highlights are blown...  DR is really better on the X1D and the S, and I dunno what's worse, bleached highlights or fringing.  The Noctilux 0.95 does a lot of fringing but so what...  I'm not prepared to write off everything not done with an APO lens.

Blown highlights are a user issue, not a camera issue, certainly not for an SL/2 level camera/sensor.  Same as slide film days.

Jeff

[setuporg]

3 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Blown highlights are a user issue, not a camera issue, certainly not for an SL/2 level camera/sensor.  Same as slide film days.

Yes but I'm surprised how often I have to scroll the wheels to bring the EV down.  Certainly not needed with the S nor X1D to such extent.

[Jeff S]

31 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Yes but I'm surprised how often I have to scroll the wheels to bring the EV down.  Certainly not needed with the S nor X1D to such extent.

Cost of having too many systems; easier to know one until second nature.

Jeff

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[setuporg]

2 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Cost of having too many systems; easier to know one until second nature.

I'd say it's an inherent feature of the system: the S and X1D just deliver with default settings, while the SL2 requires work much more often...  Second nature just means not to trust the SL2.:)

[Jeff S]

So adjust your default procedures.  Know thy tools. Bad exposure is not inherent in the camera; maybe in user practice.

Jeff