Image quality comparison between Hasselblad X1D II and Leica SL2

[setuporg]

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43 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Hehe 2 .... discuss 🙂.

Discussion: what is that Leica nosedive in the end?

[Chaemono]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb SlowDriver:

I love the Summilux-TL 35mm but under certain conditions it will display an awful lot of purple fringing.  Are you implying that the Summilux-TL 35mm and the Hasselblad XCD 80mm might come from the same source?  My understanding has always been that the TL 35mm (and the TL 60mm) were designed and made in Germany contrary to the other TL lenses which are made in Japan.

The 35 Summilux-TL does say "Made in Germany" but I'm not sure all the elements are.

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[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, setuporg said:

I readily admit I get more blown highlights with Leica M, Q2 and SL2 than with other systems, with equal level of not correcting EV.  Perhaps I should be more adept at making Leica FFs underexpose, by locking the exposure on something bright and other tricks, but the reality of this comparison is that X1D does it better, and so does S.

Set EV compensation at -0.7

[setuporg]

2 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Set EV compensation at -0.7

Yes, I always end up making it -1/3...-1, often at -2/3 as you suggest.  The problem is that then I have to cancel it indoors and in other situations...  often forgetting.

Edited January 16, 2020 by setuporg

[Jeff S]

4 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Yes, I always end up making it -1/3...-1, often at -2/3 as you suggest.  The problem is that then I have to cancel it indoors and in other situations...  often forgetting.

That’s the user thing I was mentioning.

Jeff

[SrMi]

6 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Discussion: what is that Leica nosedive in the end?

Which nosedive? 'Normal' behavior is that the graph decreases monotonically. I forgot why X1D's graph flattens after ISO 3200.

My point is that one should always be careful when using measurements as arguments. I own all three cameras mentioned in the link. I do not think that in practice, TL2 has better DR than SL2 as indicated by measurements (there are some issues with black points, I believe). But I do think that X1D has better DR than SL2.

IMO, all three cameras have plenty of dynamic range for any non-testing purpose.

[setuporg]

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4 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

That’s the user thing I was mentioning.

X1D is less prone to that due to wider DR though.  Which bears on this comparison.  Some cameras compensate better for a broader set of user behaviors.  Like the iPhone.

[Jeff S]

11 minutes ago, setuporg said:

X1D is less prone to that due to wider DR though.  Which bears on this comparison.  Some cameras compensate better for a broader set of user behaviors.  Like the iPhone.

Then I guess we need another thread comparing the X1D and the iPhone.

Jeff

[setuporg]

1 minute ago, Jeff S said:

Then I guess we need another thread comparing the X1D and the iPhone.

We're basically all dead vs the iPhone.  Especially iPhone 100 Pro Max.

[setuporg]

29 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Which nosedive? 'Normal' behavior is that the graph decreases monotonically. I forgot why X1D's graph flattens after ISO 3200.

Yeah I wonder!  So far my favorite nosedive is an episode of the "Black Mirror" series.  But I do not like the Leica nosedive where X1D is magically flat, if that's true.

[Jeff S]

7 minutes ago, setuporg said:

We're basically all dead vs the iPhone.  Especially iPhone 100 Pro Max.

I like gear that encourages me to think...and make mistakes if I don’t, but rewards when I do. 

Anyway, back to the comparisons...

Jeff

[kidigital]

I spent a couple of hours with the X1Dii and the new 45P lens yesterday. Killer combination. Double aspherical design, whisper quiet, fast and compact. All for $1100. Big sensor camera with an excellent lens for under 7k US. Plus, if you like a little, manageable vignetting, you can use a few M and R lenses on X1D also via adapter. (This is from someone who has used the S since the S2.)

[CharlesL]

7 hours ago, kidigital said:

 if you like a little, manageable vignetting, you can use a few M and R lenses on X1D also via adapter. (This is from someone who has used the S since the S2.)

Unlike the S2 shutter, the X1D electronic shutter takes 0.3 second to read image data off the sensor. If you move the camera during that time, you may get the wavy rolling shutter distortion. Ming Thein, who apparently got the electronic shutter feature into the X1D while he was at Hasselblad, has a blog post on this point. The user must go to electronic shutter, since there is no Hasselblad leaf shutter in M and R lenses. Meanwhile, those lenses adapt well to Fuji GFX cameras. (Incidentally, on the latter, you can use something like a 7:6 image size setting for a good compromise. It shaves off much of the area subject to vignetting, while it gives you a larger sensor area than a full-frame camera.)

[Mr.Q]

9 hours ago, kidigital said:

I spent a couple of hours with the X1Dii and the new 45P lens yesterday. Killer combination. Double aspherical design, whisper quiet, fast and compact. All for $1100. Big sensor camera with an excellent lens for under 7k US. Plus, if you like a little, manageable vignetting, you can use a few M and R lenses on X1D also via adapter. (This is from someone who has used the S since the S2.)

I sold my 45 in anticipation of that 45P.  Looks to be a stellar performer. Medium format IQ for less than 1 kg. Love it!

[Chaemono]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb kidigital:

I spent a couple of hours with the X1Dii and the new 45P lens yesterday. Killer combination. Double aspherical design, whisper quiet, fast and compact. All for $1100. Big sensor camera with an excellent lens for under 7k US. Plus, if you like a little, manageable vignetting, you can use a few M and R lenses on X1D also via adapter. (This is from someone who has used the S since the S2.)

How bad is the fringing with the 45P?

[Fedro]

12 hours ago, Chaemono said:

How bad is the fringing with the 45P?

I was also wondering because the MTF looks good, better than the original. so either there is something about it - could also be if it is still built in Japan? or materials are not as good (i.e. all metal?) - to bring the cost down, but could also just be that they are doing aggressive pricing/marketing. Look forward to seeing real life user reports

Edited January 22, 2020 by Fedro

[Fedro]

or maybe we simply overpaid for the 3.5 version 😂

[kidigital]

14 hours ago, Chaemono said:

How bad is the fringing with the 45P?

Less than the original ... although with a short time with the lens I didn't have time to perform any measurbator stress tests.  Frankly, that was very low on my discovery list ... especially as everything goes through post anyway. 

[kidigital]

19 hours ago, CharlesL said:

Unlike the S2 shutter, the X1D electronic shutter takes 0.3 second to read image data off the sensor. If you move the camera during that time, you may get the wavy rolling shutter distortion. Ming Thein, who apparently got the electronic shutter feature into the X1D while he was at Hasselblad, has a blog post on this point. The user must go to electronic shutter, since there is no Hasselblad leaf shutter in M and R lenses. Meanwhile, those lenses adapt well to Fuji GFX cameras. (Incidentally, on the latter, you can use something like a 7:6 image size setting for a good compromise. It shaves off much of the area subject to vignetting, while it gives you a larger sensor area than a full-frame camera.)

Great point about the rolling shutter. Since I typically use focus and recompose as an M shooter, I just paused for an extra second before pushing shutter and had no issues. While it's not optimized for M use like the SL2, in the right conditions the vignetting adds nicely to the photo ... it that's what you are after.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[kidigital]

1 hour ago, Fedro said:

I was also wondering because the MTF looks good, better than the original. so either there is something about it - could also be if it is still built in Japan? or materials are not as good (i.e. all metal?) - to bring the cost down, but could also just be that they are doing aggressive pricing/marketing. Look forward to seeing real life user reports

It's really a nice lens. It will be my everyday lens with the camera when it arrives. Fast, compact, sharp, quick focusing, 'inexpensive' and really quiet. I'm thinking that it has to be a razor/razor blade attempt to draw more users into the system.