Image quality comparison between Hasselblad X1D II and Leica SL2

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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33 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

So they are almost the same ? 
Why bother with X1D II ? 
SL2 will offer better versatility overall and broader lens choice  : L-mount alliance ; M ; R ; S 

They have some similarities but they’re not the same. The X1D has more DR, better long exposures, better high ISO performance, better UI, leaf shutter lenses and is smaller and lighter. The SL has more options, more flexibility, zooms, video and is much much faster in operation.

It’s like saying a Bowie and a scalpel are both knives.

Gordon

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[Mr.Q]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

So they are almost the same ? 
Why bother with X1D II ? 
SL2 will offer better versatility overall and broader lens choice  : L-mount alliance ; M ; R ; S 

In my case, the question was, why bother with the SL2 😉

[sillbeers15]

Thanks Chaemono for showing the objective image comparision between SL2 (FF) & XIID (MF).

We can all be on the same page knowing what makes the difference and by what magnitude between FF & MF images. Therefore there is no need to get emotional in endless talk that brings us no where.

Like Gordon said, there are also other atributes of the camera and camera system to consider that makes the total difference that determines the camera of choice.

I've said it before, I respect all differences in opinion and choices on camera system. We hope for all to benefit from meaningful discussions.

[Chaemono]

X1D offers better DR for landscape photography if one wants detail recovery in highlights, for example, because its ISO 100 files have greater adjustment latitude in this respect.  It’s a portable, relatively lightweight system for landscape photographers.  The speed has been doubled from 1/3 fps for the original X1D to about one frame per 1.5 seconds.  Having said this, focusing with the XCD 80/1.9 is a bit slow which takes the speed back to 1/3 to 1/4 fps (I know this doesn’t count but the 50 Summilux-SL focused instantaneously with Pre Focus on when shooting both side by side).  The Hasselblad combo looks really fancy and more compact than the SL2 with the 50 Summilux-SL.  One can walk into a nice restaurant with it and slam the camera on the table.  One can’t do this with the Leica combo, the table would break. 😁

IBIS by far negates the high ISO noise advantage of the X1D sensor, BTW.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Chaemono

[Mr.Q]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

IBIS by far negates the high ISO noise advantage of the X1D sensor, BTW.

Again, a highly opinionated and subjective statement. For static subjects, IBIS can help.

When shooting people or portraits, which a lot of folks would be using a short telephoto lens for, IBIS does squat.

[bags27]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

X1D offers better DR for landscape photography if one wants detail recovery in highlights, for example, because its ISO 100 files have greater adjustment latitude in this respect.  It’s a portable, relatively lightweight system for landscape photographers.

I wonder how the Sigma L Mount Foveon will "stack up" (sorry) to the X1D for landscape photography. If they take the best features of the Merrill and the Quattro and address some more obvious flaws, within limitations this could be an awesome alternative and an interesting second body for the SL2 user.

[Chaemono]

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vor 51 Minuten schrieb Mr.Q:

Again, a highly opinionated and subjective statement. For static subjects, IBIS can help.

When shooting people or portraits, which a lot of folks would be using a short telephoto lens for, IBIS does squat.

I shot a turtle that was moving towards me in No. 3 here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-3STNss/, with the 90 Summicron-SL AND IBIS.

[helged]

33 minutes ago, bags27 said:

I wonder how the Sigma L Mount Foveon will "stack up" (sorry) to the X1D for landscape photography. If they take the best features of the Merrill and the Quattro and address some more obvious flaws, within limitations this could be an awesome alternative and an interesting second body for the SL2 user.

I am in...

[Mr.Q]

1 hour ago, bags27 said:

I wonder how the Sigma L Mount Foveon will "stack up" (sorry) to the X1D for landscape photography. If they take the best features of the Merrill and the Quattro and address some more obvious flaws, within limitations this could be an awesome alternative and an interesting second body for the SL2 user.

Well that's what we hoped the FP would be.

[bags27]

1 minute ago, Mr.Q said:

Well that's what we hoped the FP would be.

But was that ever supposed to have the Foveon? I think the Foveon camera has been delayed until 2020. Wait! That's this year!!!

BTW, the Leica glass photos with the Sigma fp are pretty impressive as is.

[tom0511]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Mr.Q:

Again, a highly opinionated and subjective statement. For static subjects, IBIS can help.

When shooting people or portraits, which a lot of folks would be using a short telephoto lens for, IBIS does squat.

At longer focal length not only subject movement but also shake of photographer can destroy sharpness. So IMO shooting a portrait at 1/60 or 1/125 with IBIS can work well, without ibis 1/250 is much saver.

[tom0511]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Mr.Q:

In my case, the question was, why bother with the SL2 😉

No reason if Tele, C-AF, wide angle zoom or IBIS are not important to your photography style and if the xcd lens range fully covers your needs and if you can live with the speed of the x1d(II) body.

By the way I dont see any reason to say one is better than the other one and its good we have choices.

 

 

[Chaemono]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb tom0511:

So IMO shooting a portrait at 1/60 or 1/125 with IBIS can work well, without ibis 1/250 is much saver.

+1.  1/60 sec. ISO 100 with a 90 mm lens was the turtle shot.  And this was a big turtle with big legs that was moving fairly quickly.  I couldn’t back up fast enough to keep it in the frame. 

[setuporg]

8 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

 And this was a big turtle with big legs that was moving fairly quickly.  I couldn’t back up fast enough to keep it in the frame. 

Hope it didn’t bite you!

[Chaemono]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb setuporg:

Hope it didn’t bite you!

No, but IBIS definitely helped as I had to move. 

[jonoslack]

5 hours ago, Mr.Q said:

Again, a highly opinionated and subjective statement. For static subjects, IBIS can help.

When shooting people or portraits, which a lot of folks would be using a short telephoto lens for, IBIS does squat.

I would say that was a highly opinionated and subjective  statement.

Actually IBIS is really good for people or portraits (not of course when they’re doing sports!)

This was brought home to me forcibly when I shot my first wedding with the SL2 last weekend - it was mostly candle-lit and the rest of it was a drab grey UK day - Generally I used the same settings as I would have done with the SL, but got a much higher keeper rate. It really made a difference in very difficult shooting conditions (mostly 6400 ISO and less than 1/60th). In this case the IBIS solves the problem of the photographer’s movement (mine), subject movement isn’t so much of a problem (ie facial expressions changing etc.). 

 

[Luca]

11 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

I would say that was a highly opinionated and subjective  statement.

Actually IBIS is really good for people or portraits (not of course when they’re doing sports!)

This was brought home to me forcibly when I shot my first wedding with the SL2 last weekend - it was mostly candle-lit and the rest of it was a drab grey UK day - Generally I used the same settings as I would have done with the SL, but got a much higher keeper rate. It really made a difference in very difficult shooting conditions (mostly 6400 ISO and less than 1/60th). In this case the IBIS solves the problem of the photographer’s movement (mine), subject movement isn’t so much of a problem (ie facial expressions changing etc.). 

 

I fully agree. Ibis is really amazing. I shot portraits with 90mm @ 1/15 and had perfect photos. Same with 50mm @ 1/15 .I was in Low light conditions in a castle at the venue.

Used 15mm Voigtlander on my SL  @ 1/15 and lots of shots were blurred .

 

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I purchased my X1D for use in studio (leaf shutter lenses) and for it's spectacular long exposure implementation (I do exposures between 1 and 30 minutes regularly). IBIS wasn't a consideration. In fact IBIS may have changed the camera enough that I wouldn't have bought it. It's usability as is is spectacular.

I purchased my SL2 as a travel and walk around camera. IBIS was essential. Otherwise I might as well have stayed with the S1R (which I intend to keep for it's superior usability.)

If I'm mostly on a tripod I take the X1D. If I'm mostly handheld I take the SL2/S1R. But at a pinch I can reverse their primary roles if required.

I didn't buy them for their similarities. I bought them for their differences. I find it easy to decide which one to pick up. The 5% differences in IQ aren't generally as important as other considerations the cameras bring to the table in terms of usability, menus and functionality. On a tripod the X1D is a better camera. Off a tripod the SL2 is preferable, to me.

Arguing over IQ seems a bit weird, although I've been doing exactly that for weeks on this thread. If we were going there we'd be choosing between the A7R4 and GFX100. I think having a camera that's usability, handling and ergonomics is as, if not more important than ultimate IQ. I came to this craft to enjoy it not spend hours looking in to the corners wide open. Ultimately that's why I have an X1D and SL2.

Gordon

Edited January 2, 2020 by FlashGordonPhotography

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Hallo,

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[tom0511]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb FlashGordonPhotography:

...

Arguing over IQ seems a bit weird, although I've been doing exactly that for weeks on this thread. If we were going there we'd be choosing between the A7R4 and GFX100. I think having a camera that's usability, handling and ergonomics is as, if not more important than ultimate IQ. I came to this craft to enjoy it not spend hours looking in to the corners wide open. Ultimately that's why I have an X1D and SL2.

Gordon

I fully agree.

And with all praise about todays FF cameras I am sure and believe there is still a special richness in medium format images. It is not easy to prove in direct comparisons, but if you shoot both for months and years you know the difference. It is a luxury to be able to own both and with either system we spend way too much time (IMO) discussing the few shortcomings instead of enjoy the strong sides of each system.

For me  feel, built, user interface is quite important besides IQ alone.ANd I find both x1d and SL both feel solid and good to use. 

[Mr.Q]

5 hours ago, tom0511 said:

At longer focal length not only subject movement but also shake of photographer can destroy sharpness. So IMO shooting a portrait at 1/60 or 1/125 with IBIS can work well, without ibis 1/250 is much saver.

With or without IBIS I shoot at 1/250 or faster for people.