leica sl2 Jono Slack: Leica SL2 Review

[scott kirkpatrick]

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How much of that is LR.? I timed COne yesterday at about 4-5 sec per file for SL2 exposures.  Just rendering time. on a four year old MacBookPro.

[jonoslack]

8 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

How much of that is LR.? I timed COne yesterday at about 4-5 sec per file for SL2 exposures.  Just rendering time. on a four year old MacBookPro.

Well, there isn't a unified workflow for Capture one from an iPad to the cloud to a computer (is there? there certainly wasn't)- with publishable galleries - and rendering time at 4-5 seconds is pretty bad without adjustments - what's the rendering time if you've made adjustments? . . . and if you're dealing with 1500 images? that's more than 2 hours time just waiting for images to render! I've not measured it, but I'd say that LR is much faster than that, but that 48mp files take about twice as long as 24mp files - and that is an issue.

[scott kirkpatrick]

It was 8 shots, each with shadow adjustments and some vignetting in 30-35 sec.  The processing time should be linear in the size of the raw files since they pretty much grind straight through. As for dealing with 1500 images, I haven't had that pleasure.  Compressing the files in camera would just make it take longer. to undo for rendering.   The real issue is doubling the number of pixels that go into each image.

Edited November 10, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, mmradman said:

I would gladly buy 1Tb SSD for USD100 and multiples pro rata.  As of today in Uk external 1Tb in SSD is round £150+ and 2Tb £290-315 (Amazon uk prices).  Grateful for advise on more reasonably priced SSD local storage.

Argument how memory is cheap and RAW compression is irrelevant is not fit for 2019, why buy more memory if software algorithm can half the file size.  Making more storage drives means bigger carbon (or silicon) footprint, extinction rebellion anyone?

https://www.mediamarkt.nl/nl/category/_externe-harde-schijven-ssd-s-482770.html

As long as compression is lossless I have no issue with it. I just don't see it as an urgent need.

[thighslapper]

30 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Sadly they don't cut it, and a mixed workflow (DNG and jpg) is impossibly complicated to get right. But working on events the bandwidth might be brilliant (or awful) you just don't know. What is certain is that 48mp files take longer to process on an MBP in Lr than 24mp files!

 

I have to say that raw S1R files download from an XQD card to my iPad pro really quickly ....... and they open instantly in LR ......although rendering a full res 100% view in LR takes a couple of seconds. 

Processing is also lightning quick on the iPad Pro and the processed files sync with LR at home via the cloud .... although you need to clear out LR files on the ipad now and again so you don't exceed the rather stingy cloud limit that adobe gives you. LR on the iPad is zippy and you can do everything on the touch screen with a finger or the apple pencil. I really can't see any downsides save no access to Photoshop (soon hopefully) and no blending or stitching images. I rarely manage to improve on the edits I do on the iPad when I reprocess on my Mac at home. 

My workflow is:   dump everything to photos on the iPad, selectively open the decent images in LR and process. At home I load the lot on my iMac and then export the synced and processed photos from the sync folder in LR with a name suffix to the same LR folder I'm using so I have both - ipad processed image and the original, side by side. On the ipad I export any decent processed photos as jpg's to the app where I store my best processed images. I tend to leave the imported original in Photos on the iPad until I start running low on storage just as a secondary back-up, and delete the oldest when I need more room. It may sound a bit convoluted but it's all actually very simple and quick. 

I defy anyone to find a better small, portable format to show off images at their best .... the iPad Pro really flatters even the most mundane images ....

Edited November 10, 2019 by thighslapper

[jonoslack]

3 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

It was 8 shots, each with shadow adjustments and some vignetting in 30-35 sec.  The processing time should be linear in the size of the raw files since they pretty much grind straight through. As for dealing with 1500 images, I haven't had that pleasure.  Compressing the files in camera would just make it take longer. to undo for rendering.   The real issue is doubling the number of pixels that go into each image.

Quite right - compression doesn't help at all (and actually, shooting jpg doesn't help that much either). What would help, is if the SL2 had an option to produce 24mp DNG files on the second card, that way you would have all the performance benefits of 24mp . . with the possibility to use 48 mp if you really wanted it (maybe a 150 people group shot). 

[mmradman]

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8 minutes ago, jaapv said:

https://www.mediamarkt.nl/nl/category/_externe-harde-schijven-ssd-s-482770.html

Prices are pretty much the same as in UK, you may be mixing HDD with SDD.

 

[jonoslack]

3 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

I have to say that raw S1R files download from an XQD card to my iPad pro really quickly ....... and they open instantly in LR ......although rendering a full res 100% view in LR takes a couple of seconds. 

Processing is also lightning quick on the iPad Pro and the processed files sync with LR at home via the cloud .... although you need to clear out LR files on the ipad now and again so you don't exceed the rather stingy cloud limit that adobe gives you. LR on the iPad is zippy and you can do everything on the touch screen with a finger or the apple pencil. I really can't see any downsides save no access to Photoshop (soon hopefully) and no blending or stitching images. I rarely manage to improve on the edits I do on the iPad when I reprocess on my Mac at home. 

My workflow is:   dump everything to photos on the iPad, selectively open the decent images in LR and process. At home I load the lot on my iMac and then export the synced and processed photos from the sync folder in LR with a name suffix to the same LR folder I'm using so I have both - ipad processed image and the original, side by side. On the ipad I export any decent processed photos as jpg's to the app where I store my best processed images. I tend to leave the imported original in Photos on the iPad until I start running low on storage just as a secondary back-up, and delete the oldest when I need more room. It may sound a bit convoluted but it's all actually very simple and quick. 

I defy anyone to find a better small, portable format to show off images at their best .... the iPad Pro really flatters even the most mundane images ....

Yes - my workflow is

almost the same.

I actually bung the card in the iPad and select images in the import routine in Photos (so that the crap doesn't even touch the iPad memory). Selection in Photos works quite well and you can zoom in to check focus. Then open LR on the iPad which automatically imports from Photos. Leave the iPad plugged in to sync with Adobe cloud overnight (and the same on the Mac to bring them back and back them up to the storage). 

I've been doing it for nearly a year now. It works really well for both weddings and events, and LR on the iPad runs for 5 or 6 hours on battery (less than an hour on an MPB). 

From the Mac in LR classic I can do books and prints etc. really easily - but I don't feel I need to load them again at home. Seems like double handling your muck! (and it's depressing enough to ignore the rubbish once, without having to do it all over again!). 

[scott kirkpatrick]

 

11 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Quite right - compression doesn't help at all (and actually, shooting jpg doesn't help that much either). What would help, is if the SL2 had an option to produce 24mp DNG files on the second card, that way you would have all the performance benefits of 24mp . . with the possibility to use 48 mp if you really wanted it (maybe a 150 people group shot). 

Backing down to a 24 MP raw file from a 48 MP starting point has the same opportunities (and dangers) that you see in overly simple multishot high res alorithms. You get one fourth as many pixels as you started out with by grabbing four adjacent Bayer data points, but each pixel has full color data.  Now transform them back into something fools LR or the like into thinking it is a Bayer image with a pixel separation Sqrt(2) times larger than before. (That provides half as many pixels as you started out with.) The simplest, obvious way to do that gives you artifacts like those that you can see with the S1's HD multishot mode.  There are fancier methods that might fix this, but now you need to find out who holds the patent on those...  Still it is a good idea.

Edited November 11, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

[Exodies]

2 hours ago, thighslapper said:

<snip>I really can't see any downsides save no access to Photoshop (soon hopefully) and no blending or stitching images.<snip>

Photoshop for the iPad is already in the App Store.

[albertknappmd]

a very thorough and thoughtful review.

Your thoughts on getting a body as a "backup" to my S system?

Albert

[rsmphoto]

Hi Jono,

I'm guessing you didn't since it wasn't mentioned, but did you by any chance pull out a tripod to try the multi-shot mode? I'm very curious about any results.

Thanks,

Richard

 

[rsmphoto]

14 hours ago, albertknappmd said:

a very thorough and thoughtful review.

Your thoughts on getting a body as a "backup" to my S system?

Albert

I've heard they've ironed out the tethering issues with the SL2 (using a non-proprietary USB-C cable no less!), so that's my thought exactly.

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by rsmphoto

[SrMi]

19 minutes ago, rsmphoto said:

Hi Jono,

I'm guessing you didn't since it wasn't mentioned, but did you by any chance pull out a tripod to try the multi-shot mode? I'm very curious about any results.

Thanks,

Richard

 

Multi-shot mode is not available yet. It will be added via firmware update next year.

[rsmphoto]

2 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Multi-shot mode is not available yet. It will be added via firmware update next year.

 

2 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Multi-shot mode is not available yet. It will be added via firmware update next year.

Thanks. Definitely think I'd like to be a beta tester for that one.

[LocalHero1953]

18 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Quite right - compression doesn't help at all (and actually, shooting jpg doesn't help that much either). What would help, is if the SL2 had an option to produce 24mp DNG files on the second card, that way you would have all the performance benefits of 24mp . . with the possibility to use 48 mp if you really wanted it (maybe a 150 people group shot). 

Every time I think I could be tempted by IBIS and an improved interface and other performance, I remember all those pixels I really do not need or want. I wonder how many sales are lost for this reason? I know you extol the virtues of Leica's 3-in-1 approach to the SL2 compared to Panasonic's 3 models, but a 24 mp SL2 would get my attention, even if a 24mp down-sampling option is technically too difficult at the moment.

Edited November 11, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[thighslapper]

1 hour ago, rsmphoto said:

 

Thanks. Definitely think I'd like to be a beta tester for that one.

From my S1R experience Multi Shot High Def. mode is more of a novelty than a useful feature.

Although 180+ mpx images sounds wonderful the increased resolution does not appear to be as good as you would expect from a 16700x1100 sized sensor ....... and there are issues with subject movement (although the Lumix has a mode that mitigates some of this). 

I've messed about with it and even with a 5k iMac it's difficult to appreciate the difference, let alone print large enough to gain much benefit from it. As Paul mentions above, we are well into the territory of technical specifications that are well beyond the needs of most of us. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

33 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

 a 24 mp SL2 would get my attention, even if a 24mp down-sampling option is technically too difficult at the moment.

While it is not trivial, it is comparable to the effort to produce a 24 MP jpeg, which also has to create a virtual lattice of pixels for the JPEG image, with a spacing bigger than that of the sensor.  But jpegs have the advantage that all three colors are available at each "pixel" but with only 8 bits for each.  A 24 bit raw has to figure out where to put the 3x14 bits of color information without causing artifacts. 

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

From my S1R experience Multi Shot High Def. mode is more of a novelty than a useful feature.

Although 180+ mpx images sounds wonderful the increased resolution does not appear to be as good as you would expect from a 16700x1100 sized sensor ....... and there are issues with subject movement (although the Lumix has a mode that mitigates some of this). 

I've messed about with it and even with a 5k iMac it's difficult to appreciate the difference, let alone print large enough to gain much benefit from it. As Paul mentions above, we are well into the territory of technical specifications that are well beyond the needs of most of us. 

Puts (first ‘post-Leica’ post) apparently isn’t impressed with the practice either (English version at end)...

https://photo.imx.nl/blog/files/940fc0b7473e258690189fcc1c4d68ff-144.html

If course he couldn’t avoid another dig at Leica, and the SL2 in particular.

Jeff

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[steamboat]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Every time I think I could be tempted by IBIS and an improved interface and other performance, I remember all those pixels I really do not need or want. I wonder how many sales are lost for this reason? I know you extol the virtues of Leica's 3-in-1 approach to the SL2 compared to Panasonic's 3 models, but a 24 mp SL2 would get my attention, even if a 24mp down-sampling option is technically too difficult at the moment.

Quite right. I wouldn’t consider the SL2 because of file size. Back in film days I shot thousands of rolls of Tri-X and hundreds of rolls of T-Max3200. Almost no PlusX or Panatomic. Yeah for color a ton of Kodachrome and Fujichrome. I don’t need giant files. All of you carry on and good luck with your photography.