leica sl2 Jono Slack: Leica SL2 Review

[Chaemono]

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One reviewer mentioned that the SL2 sensor has two layers of glass vs. three on the S1R one and that, therefore, SL lenses produce visibly sharper images on the SL2 than on the S1R.  Can you confirm this?

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[John Black]

Hi Jono - quick question about using M lenses.  When navigating with the joy stick (or tapping the rear screen) to select a spot, does the SL2 "remember" that spot while switching back & forth between the full view & magnified view?  Or is it like the SL and we re-navigate each time?  Thank you.

[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

One reviewer mentioned that the SL2 sensor has two layers of glass vs. three on the S1R one and that, therefore, SL lenses produce visibly sharper images on the SL2 than on the S1R.  Can you confirm this?

DPR has also mentioned the difference in layers of glass, but they did not claim that it produces better images

[jonoslack]

3 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

One reviewer mentioned that the SL2 sensor has two layers of glass vs. three on the S1R one and that, therefore, SL lenses produce visibly sharper images on the SL2 than on the S1R.  Can you confirm this?

Hi There

Yes - the sensor cover glass is quite different as I understand it (and has two layers) . . . but I'm not sure that it'll produce sharper images on SL lenses - It certainly does produce sharper images with M lenses.

Best

Jono

[jonoslack]

2 minutes ago, John Black said:

Hi Jono - quick question about using M lenses.  When navigating with the joy stick (or tapping the rear screen) to select a spot, does the SL2 "remember" that spot while switching back & forth between the full view & magnified view?  Or is it like the SL and we re-navigate each time?  Thank you.

What a good question John - always used to drive me crazy - I'll check

best

Jono

[jonoslack]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

DPR has also mentioned the difference in layers of glass, but they did not claim that it produces better images

It's for M lenses, not SL lenses

best

Jono

[SrMi]

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7 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

It's for M lenses, not SL lenses

best

Jono

I do not understand, Jono.

In addition to microlens array, I read that SL2 sensor has only 2 layers of glass (vs 3 on S1R). That change should help reduce reflections. Microlens array helps M lenses, but reduction in glass layers should help all.

Edited November 6, 2019 by SrMi

[Chaemono]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb jonoslack:

Hi There

Yes - the sensor cover glass is quite different as I understand it (and has two layers) . . . but I'm not sure that it'll produce sharper images on SL lenses - It certainly does produce sharper images with M lenses.

Best

Jono

Thanks, Jono. In theory, three layers of glass on the S1R sensor for lenses that were made for two layers should negatively affect IQ.  The question is, is it marginal or significant.  I'll try to find out.  I have two copies of the 50 Summicron-SL so I won't have to change lenses all the time.

[thighslapper]

Curious to see the difference in file sizes ....... S1R's come in at 69.9mb and SL2 at 84.4mb ...... presumably uncompressed and they have a much larger embedded jpg which partly explains the better image quality on the screen than the S1R. 

I convert the S1R's RW2 files to DNG with adobe's converter and they usually end up at 50mb on average (the default lossless compression)...... which is an enormous difference when compared to SL2 files of the same resolution..... 

Edited November 6, 2019 by thighslapper

[helged]

9 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

Curious to see the difference in file sizes ....... S1R's come in at 69.9mb and SL2 at 84.4mb ...... presumably uncompressed and they have a much larger embedded jpg which partly explains the better image quality on the screen than the S1R. 

I convert the S1R's RW2 files to DNG with adobe's converter and they usually end up at 50mb on average (the default lossless compression)...... which is an enormous difference when compared to SL2 files of the same resolution..... 

For curiousity: why dont do read TÆthe RW2 files directly into LR?

[thighslapper]

2 minutes ago, helged said:

For curiousity: why dont do read TÆthe RW2 files directly into LR?

because LR initially didn't recognise the RW2 files and I had to convert them ...... and the habit has stuck, particularly as it reduces the size, and for the sake of consistency as my photo archive is 100% DNG since 2010. It's a small painless additional step in importing the images. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

13 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

Curious to see the difference in file sizes ....... S1R's come in at 69.9mb and SL2 at 84.4mb ...... presumably uncompressed and they have a much larger embedded jpg which partly explains the better image quality on the screen than the S1R. 

84MB sounds suspiciously like 47+ MPx each stored densely with all 14 of their bits uncompressed.  That's a storage format that Leica uses in the SL's files as well. 

Run a few of them through gzip to see what lossless compression can do if compute cost is not an issue.  I'll bet you see 50% to 60% compression. 

[thighslapper]

Jono ...... anything in the menus to suggest Leica has done anything about their abysmal file naming/numbering ........ ?

.... or are we back to folders changing prematurely and going back to zero with every firmware update ..... 

Edited November 6, 2019 by thighslapper

[Lins-Barroso]

Just to understand:

Does it come with Built-in GPS?

[SrMi]

Just now, Lins-Barroso said:

Just to understand:

Does it come with Built-in GPS?

No.

[Likaleica]

2 hours ago, thighslapper said:

Thanks Jono ...... much food for thought ....... 

I can forsee a week of fiddling about with the button customisation to achieve an optimised configuration and profiles......

Ultimately, if the image output is no different to the S1R I may just end up with a 2nd S1R body so I have twins rather than brothers and save myself a few thousand pounds ....

Actually, it is surprisingly intuitive and doesn't take long to get it all sorted out.

[jonoslack]

58 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Thanks, Jono. In theory, three layers of glass on the S1R sensor for lenses that were made for two layers should negatively affect IQ.  The question is, is it marginal or significant.  I'll try to find out.  I have two copies of the 50 Summicron-SL so I won't have to change lenses all the time.

 

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

I do not understand, Jono.

In addition to microlens array, I read that SL2 sensor has only 2 layers of glass (vs 3 on S1R). That change should help reduce reflections. Microlens array helps M lenses, but reduction in glass layers should help all.

Hi there

This is how I understand it.

The importance of micro lenses is very much over-egged as far as I can understand (Sean Reid would agree). The thickness of the coverglass stack is very much more important.

The microlense design  will help with vignetting and colour cast, but it is the coverglass stack which causes 'smearing' near the periphery.

The M10 actually only has 1 layer (IR Cut filter / protection)

the SL and SL2 have 2 (IR Cut filter and protection)

but the point and problem is to keep it thin enough to stop smearing.

best

Jono

[jonoslack]

1 hour ago, John Black said:

Hi Jono - quick question about using M lenses.  When navigating with the joy stick (or tapping the rear screen) to select a spot, does the SL2 "remember" that spot while switching back & forth between the full view & magnified view?  Or is it like the SL and we re-navigate each time?  Thank you.

Hooray Hurrah!

Hi John 

I've just checked - spot is remembered, not only when moving between full and magnified, but also after you've taken a photo and (wait for it) after you turn the camera on and off as well!

It was the primary reason why I stopped using M lenses on the SL, and I didn't think about it whilst testing, so THANK YOU for reminding me, and how nice to be able to give you the answer you wanted to hear!

All the best

 

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[m9photo]

@jonoslack the all new specs have almost checked the box for me, have you tried this in studio? need to know if SL2 HSS with 3rd party (i.e Elinchrom) would allow to do 1/8000th?

[AndreaP75]

7 minutes ago, m9photo said:

@jonoslack the all new specs have almost checked the box for me, have you tried this in studio? need to know if SL2 HSS with 3rd party (i.e Elinchrom) would allow to do 1/8000th?

I think it's up to Elinchrom or any other brand to release a trigger with Leica protocol (obviously Leica will need to provide the information). So far, it looks like no camera of the L-mount is "open" to that. It's a pity because this new 47mp sensor would excel with proper studio lighting and outdoor at low ISO, where HSS will be required. Still not convinced on the higher ISO, it seems the grain / noise rendering is less organic and definitely more digital than the original SL. It's not about having cleaner images, it's just how the images look at higher ISO. Obviously we're stretching a bit on pixel density. For me, the SL could be primarily a studio / landscape camera, definitely in medium format territory with the SL crons for those applications.