leica sl2 Jono Slack: Leica SL2 Review

[jonoslack]

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9 hours ago, vikasmg said:

Wonderful review and photographs, though a lot more pleasant to read on your web site.  Thank you very much!

Thank you Vikas - I'm afraid my website might be a bit retro, but I like it simple!

Glad you enjoyed it (that's the aim!)

all the best

Jono

[SrMi]

Jono, is depth-of-field information visible in top LCD as it is with SL?

Thanks!

[farnz]

Another excellent and informative review that's pleasant to read - I do like your writing style - and your pictures are tops as always.

Pete.

PS, you were both missed in Seville.

[Daedalus2000]

On 11/6/2019 at 5:47 PM, thighslapper said:

Curious to see the difference in file sizes ....... S1R's come in at 69.9mb and SL2 at 84.4mb ...... presumably uncompressed and they have a much larger embedded jpg which partly explains the better image quality on the screen than the S1R. 

I convert the S1R's RW2 files to DNG with adobe's converter and they usually end up at 50mb on average (the default lossless compression)...... which is an enormous difference when compared to SL2 files of the same resolution..... 

You can reduce the size of the Leica DNG files after you import them in Lightroom. I tested it with SL2 DNG and they go down to 40MB from 80MB.

To do that select the files you want to "compress" in the Library section and then select the menu item Metadata and inside there click on "Update DNG preview and metadata". This seems to compress the file using lossless compression. But it also changes the size of the jpg preview so make sure in your preferences to set the size of the preview jpeg you prefer (None, Medium, Full size)

 

[meerec]

4 hours ago, Daedalus2000 said:

This seems to compress the file using lossless compression.

I do not like it already, “seems” ... what if does something else / more and you lose IQ at the end @Daedalus2000

[Daedalus2000]

36 minutes ago, meerec said:

I do not like it already, “seems” ... what if does something else / more and you lose IQ at the end @Daedalus2000

Officially this menu item does the following:

If you’re working with a DNG file, choose Metadata > Update DNG Previews & Metadata to save metadata changes to the file and also generate a preview based on the current raw processing settings.

So basically it saves in the file any changes in the metadata and updates the preview so it reflects your processing, e.g. a B/W preview if you converted the image in B/W in LIghtroom etc. It does not mention the compressing so I do not think they would dare compress it in a lossy way without telling you. I have used it also with Sigma dng files (that are linear dng I believe) and it worked well.

If you want to have full control of the compression without changing metadata/previews, select the DNG images in the Library section and then go to Library/Convert Photo to DNG. Then you get a full menu with all the options and you can be 100% sure that there is no lossy compression (it is one of the options, so just make sure it is not selected ). If you want to do the conversion without generating duplicates make sure the second option is clicked, i.e. delete originals after successful conversion is selected.

I did my own tests and I am happy that the original method I described does a lossless conversion, but please do your own tests to be on the safe side.

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Daedalus2000

[SrMi]

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51 minutes ago, meerec said:

I do not like it already, “seems” ... what if does something else / more and you lose IQ at the end @Daedalus2000

It does lossless compression. There is no degradation of image quality.

[Vip]

The SL2 has the sensors stabilised. Some lens of the L system has optical stabilisation. How the two system interact? Both working with combined effect on quality or one at time ( when) or only sensor?

if if the last the case the previous optical way is going to disappear? 

[helged]

40 minutes ago, Vip said:

The SL2 has the sensors stabilised. Some lens of the L system has optical stabilisation. How the two system interact? Both working with combined effect on quality or one at time ( when) or only sensor?

if if the last the case the previous optical way is going to disappear? 

Based on the Panasonic S1R, IBIS may give you a 4-5 stop advantage, by adding the OIS you may get an additional 1 stop. I dont know the details how they interact, but I have not heard about problems using both (and I havent run into problems myself). The S1R IBIS - and I guess SL2 uses the same machinery - is amazing... 

[mmradman]

13 hours ago, Daedalus2000 said:

Officially this menu item does the following:

If you’re working with a DNG file, choose Metadata > Update DNG Previews & Metadata to save metadata changes to the file and also generate a preview based on the current raw processing settings.

So basically it saves in the file any changes in the metadata and updates the preview so it reflects your processing, e.g. a B/W preview if you converted the image in B/W in LIghtroom etc. It does not mention the compressing so I do not think they would dare compress it in a lossy way without telling you. I have used it also with Sigma dng files (that are linear dng I believe) and it worked well.

If you want to have full control of the compression without changing metadata/previews, select the DNG images in the Library section and then go to Library/Convert Photo to DNG. Then you get a full menu with all the options and you can be 100% sure that there is no lossy compression (it is one of the options, so just make sure it is not selected ). If you want to do the conversion without generating duplicates make sure the second option is clicked, i.e. delete originals after successful conversion is selected.

I did my own tests and I am happy that the original method I described does a lossless conversion, but please do your own tests to be on the safe side.

 

 

It is not for me as end user to fiddle on my computer and compress files. It should be Leica's to provide option to save Raw as lossless compressed, it was a feature last seen on M9/M9M and M240/M246, don’t know about M8 as newer handled it.  It seems went lazy at the time of Q and SL601.  

It is not all criticism, kudos for introducing LENR selection and IBIS (borrowed from S1R parts bin).

[Daedalus2000]

59 minutes ago, mmradman said:

 

It is not for me as end user to fiddle on my computer and compress files. It should be Leica's to provide option to save Raw as lossless compressed, it was a feature last seen on M9/M9M and M240/M246, don’t know about M8 as newer handled it.  It seems went lazy at the time of Q and SL601.  

It is not all criticism, kudos for introducing LENR selection and IBIS (borrowed from S1R parts bin).

I agree, but maybe compression adds extra computations to the camera processor and they wanted to keep the speed high, who knows. 

I have to say I downloaded the dngs from dpreview and I am very impressed with the image quality (I have the SL)

[Jk1002]

@jonoslack Since you had time with the camera, the DPReview hands on video mentions lack of detail in the viewfinder but you mention change in contrast indicating it works actually better. If there would be a problem with the camera that they used since it was at a Leica event I would think Leica would have corrected that/had tight controls around it. 

I am holding off for the US product launch tour to take one out before I order, not in a rush and am guessing supply will be there within few month.

Cheers

JK

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, Vip said:

The SL2 has the sensors stabilised. Some lens of the L system has optical stabilisation. How the two system interact? Both working with combined effect on quality or one at time ( when) or only sensor?

if if the last the case the previous optical way is going to disappear? 

From David Farkas' overview: 

With just the in-body stabilization, expect around five and half stops of effective shake reduction. Add on one of Leica’s SL zooms with OIS (optical stabilization) and the combined correction can be more than six stops.

OIS is better for long lenses, it is unlikely to disappear. You can check other mirrorless manufacturers to see which lenses will typically always have OIS.

[mmradman]

2 hours ago, Daedalus2000 said:

I agree, but maybe compression adds extra computations to the camera processor and they wanted to keep the speed high, who knows. 

I have to say I downloaded the dngs from dpreview and I am very impressed with the image quality (I have the SL)

Even M9 can compress losslessly, that was 10 years ago and camera had rudimentary processor by today’s standard.

[SrMi]

31 minutes ago, mmradman said:

Even M9 can compress losslessly, that was 10 years ago and camera had rudimentary processor by today’s standard.

Neither Sony nor Hasselblad cameras provide lossless compression of raw files.

Not trying to justify it, just pointing that Leica is not alone in that.

[otto.f]

And what is the loss actually, can I see that?

[Daedalus2000]

57 minutes ago, mmradman said:

Even M9 can compress losslessly, that was 10 years ago and camera had rudimentary processor by today’s standard.

Yes but maybe the extra megapixels and the need for speed (20 frames per second etc) made it difficult. 

Anyway, my original post was really my effort to help people who do not like the size and want to compress their files when they are in Lightroom. I have compressed in this way all my DNGs and I saved a lot of space.

[mmradman]

56 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Neither Sony nor Hasselblad cameras provide lossless compression of raw files.

Not trying to justify it, just pointing that Leica is not alone in that.

Don’t know about Hasselblad, at least they cracked LENR off long time ago.  Sony is an odd one, it seems they dabble with compression but never get it right, too much emphasis on Mp and FPS, I guess made for punter who makes purchase decisions based on the recommendation of YouTube influencers.

[mmradman]

37 minutes ago, Daedalus2000 said:

Yes but maybe the extra megapixels and the need for speed (20 frames per second etc) made it difficult. 

Anyway, my original post was really my effort to help people who do not like the size and want to compress their files when they are in Lightroom. I have compressed in this way all my DNGs and I saved a lot of space.

Kudos to you on working out the compression routine and sharing it.

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[BernardC]

1 hour ago, mmradman said:

Even M9 can compress losslessly, that was 10 years ago and camera had rudimentary processor by today’s standard.

SD cards were slower 10 years ago, and buffers were smaller. The case for compressing DNGs was more compelling.

People used to juggle 4GB SD cards, because they were more reliable than higher-capacity cards.