"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

[wellfleet]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

deleted

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by wellfleet

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Chaemono]

Nokishita is getting closer, Maestro III processor: https://twitter.com/nokishita_c. Leica Rumors translates. Let's see what other surprises we'll get on November 6. 😁

 

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by Chaemono

[Mr.Q]

I'm mostly interested in the rumored lighter weight. 

Nikon Z7 - 585g
Canon EOS R - 660g
Sony A7 IV - 665g
Hasselblad X1D II - 766g
Fujifilm GFX 50R - 775g
Leica SL - 847g <----------------- currently sits here
Fujifilm GFX 50S - 920g
Panasonic S1R - 1020g
Fujifilm GFX 100 - 1400g

I'm hoping it'll slim down by 100g to around 720-750g. A difference of 300g would be a rather significant differentiator against the Panasonic behemoths. Those that prefer a heavier camera (for better balance with bigger zooms) can always get the battery grip.

[caissa]

It is an endless topic and some users seem to be obsessed by size/weight. But in my eyes the time where the size/weight of a camera is very important is almost over. Take mobile phones in comparison, at the beginning the size was very important (because some were really awfully big and heavy), but now almost all current devices have acceptable sizes. 

For me the size and quality (usability in the widest sense) of the lenses is THE most important point. So I sometimes use older lenses like the M 28mm or R 50mm instead of the superior SL 24-90 zoom (superior in flexibility, maybe also in IQ), because it suits me better. (I actually avoided buying the 24-90 because I do not like its features, especially the obtrusive “concertina” zoom.) But choosing the camera because of size/weight is for me out of the question. If not, then everybody should be eager to get an Sigma FP camera, the smallest and lightest of all mirrorless.

Why was it not listed in above comparison, but instead again the notorious Sony ?   Fp weighs only 422g . Every other camera is way off ....

Edited October 26, 2019 by caissa

[caissa]

It would be interesting to see experience reports of M lenses on the Sigma fp . If quality is good enough, then this could be a replacement for the “missing” CM.  (no big viewfinder, so maybe a sort of M-D Leica replacement)

Edited October 26, 2019 by caissa

[Mr.Q]

56 minutes ago, caissa said:

It is an endless topic and some users seem to be obsessed by size/weight. But in my eyes the time where the size/weight of a camera is very important is almost over. Take mobile phones in comparison, at the beginning the size was very important (because some were really awfully big and heavy), but now almost all current devices have acceptable sizes. 

For me the size and quality (usability in the widest sense) of the lenses is THE most important point. So I sometimes use older lenses like the M 28mm or R 50mm instead of the superior SL 24-90 zoom (superior in flexibility, maybe also in IQ), because it suits me better. (I actually avoided buying the 24-90 because I do not like its features, especially the obtrusive “concertina” zoom.) But choosing the camera because of size/weight is for me out of the question. If not, then everybody should be eager to get an Sigma FP camera, the smallest and lightest of all mirrorless.

Why was it not listed in above comparison, but instead again the notorious Sony ?   Fp weighs only 422g . Every other camera is way off ....

Sorry you're not making any sense, especially that phone comparison.

[Chaemono]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

We all know that an SL2 at 720-750g will have the majority of former SL users who are now with the S1R switch in no time.  But that’s about it.  Put a 48ish MPx stacked BSI sensor and PDAF in it and it will sell like hot cakes. 

[BernardC]

One easy way for Leica to make it lighter would be to make it less solid. I don't think anybody wants that, the solid Al block construction is a large part of the camera's appeal.

The chart posted earlier shows that the SL is mid-pack in terms of weight. Lighter cameras have smaller batteries and a weaker build.

[Mr.Q]

14 minutes ago, BernardC said:

One easy way for Leica to make it lighter would be to make it less solid. I don't think anybody wants that, the solid Al block construction is a large part of the camera's appeal.

The chart posted earlier shows that the SL is mid-pack in terms of weight. Lighter cameras have smaller batteries and a weaker build.

According to Nokishita, Leica opted for a magnesium chassis, which should make it lighter than a solid block of aluminium. The question is, how much lighter?

[mmx_2]

29 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

According to Nokishita, Leica opted for a magnesium chassis, which should make it lighter than a solid block of aluminium. The question is, how much lighter?

Magnesium alloys typically have a density of 1.8-1.9g/cm3 vs Aluminium 2.7g/cm3. So just changing the material would result in about 30percent less weight. Now in a camera you have of course a lot of other things, circuit board, sensor and not least the battery. But if we guesstimate the chassis to be about half the the weight of the whole camera a 10-15 percent weight reduction would not be unlikely.

[Jeff S]

Note that the S007 already has a magnesium alloy body.  I don’t hear anyone complaining that it doesn’t feel solid.  It’s a quality material, and body covering along with ergonomics/size/grip likely play a larger role in user reactions to handling.

Jeff

Edited October 26, 2019 by Jeff S

[ron777]

3 hours ago, Chaemono said:

We all know that an SL2 at 720-750g will have the majority of former SL users who are now with the S1R switch in no time.  But that’s about it.  Put a 48ish MPx stacked BSI sensor and PDAF in it and it will sell like hot cakes. 

Do you post this nonsense for the purpose of creating controversy?

I haven't posted here for quite some time because of your constant needling.  Big and heavy lenses dictate the necessity for a camera body with mass to make them comfortably usable, regardless of IBIS.  And to assume that you speak for, or can divine the mindset of the universe of current, past and prospective Leica or S1R owners represents the height of arrogance.  Don't bother responding to this post, because I will not be monitoring this forum any longer. 

[Chaemono]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb ron777:

Do you post this nonsense for the purpose of creating controversy?

I haven't posted here for quite some time because of your constant needling.  Big and heavy lenses dictate the necessity for a camera body with mass to make them comfortably usable, regardless of IBIS.  And to assume that you speak for, or can divine the mindset of the universe of current, past and prospective Leica or S1R owners represents the height of arrogance.  Don't bother responding to this post, because I will not be monitoring this forum any longer. 

Hi Ron, you’re back.  Out of the penalty box so soon? 😂

[Chaemono]

On a different note, did all you GPS lovers out there notice in the French leaked photos that the SL2 is missing the inelegant hump on the left that the SL has?  This likely means that SL2 comes without built-in GPS.  No biggy for me, though. 

Edited October 26, 2019 by Chaemono

[Luca]

''Object Detection AF'' ?? does anyone has any clue on this ?

thanks

[MarkinVan]

Well,. listening to all these rumours, makes me think my SL 601 will be a Classic for years to come.

I will likely get the new SL2 but sure do appreciate what the SL is.

[saxo]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Mr.Q:

I'm mostly interested in the rumored lighter weight. 

Nikon Z7 - 585g
Canon EOS R - 660g
Sony A7 IV - 665g
Hasselblad X1D II - 766g
Fujifilm GFX 50R - 775g
Leica SL - 847g <----------------- currently sits here
Fujifilm GFX 50S - 920g
Panasonic S1R - 1020g
Fujifilm GFX 100 - 1400g

I'm hoping it'll slim down by 100g to around 720-750g. A difference of 300g would be a rather significant differentiator against the Panasonic behemoths. Those that prefer a heavier camera (for better balance with bigger zooms) can always get the battery grip.

Thanks for comparison

But most important is the weight of lenses. If you ad this, you will see that Leica is made for bodybuilder.

[Chaemono]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb Luca:

''Object Detection AF'' ?? does anyone has any clue on this ?

thanks

Yes. It probably means that the SL2 includes a ToF sensor for better low light AF. 

"The time-of-flight auto-focusing (ToFAF) system actively radiates a special light traveling back to the sensor after being reflecting by an object and then measures the time of the travel to estimate the distance of the object from the camera. Using the relationship between the distance of the object and the correspondingly optimal in-focus lens position, the ToFAF system can predict the best lens position. Since the ToFAF method directly computes the distance of an object, it can provide accurate auto-focusing for both low light and flat objects without a sufficient amount of detail."

They likely cooperated with Huawei on this.

https://www.digit.in/features/mobile-phones/what-is-time-of-flight-camera-sensor-and-what-does-it-do-45994.html

Edit - https://www.dxomark.com/huawei-p30-pro-camera-review/

"The P30 Pro’s PDAF autofocus system is assisted by a ToF laser that can measure subject distance in any light condition. As a result, the Huawei AF focuses quickly and produces consistently sharp images in all light conditions."

Edited October 26, 2019 by Chaemono

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Luca]

20 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Yes. It probably means that the SL2 includes a ToF sensor for better low light AF. 

"The time-of-flight auto-focusing (ToFAF) system actively radiates a special light traveling back to the sensor after being reflecting by an object and then measures the time of the travel to estimate the distance of the object from the camera. Using the relationship between the distance of the object and the correspondingly optimal in-focus lens position, the ToFAF system can predict the best lens position. Since the ToFAF method directly computes the distance of an object, it can provide accurate auto-focusing for both low light and flat objects without a sufficient amount of detail."

They likely cooperated with Huawei on this.

https://www.digit.in/features/mobile-phones/what-is-time-of-flight-camera-sensor-and-what-does-it-do-45994.html

Edit - https://www.dxomark.com/huawei-p30-pro-camera-review/

"The P30 Pro’s PDAF autofocus system is assisted by a ToF laser that can measure subject distance in any light condition. As a result, the Huawei AF focuses quickly and produces consistently sharp images in all light conditions."

very interesting and thank you for your detailed explanation!

[Distagon]

1 hour ago, saxo said:

Thanks for comparison

But most important is the weight of lenses. If you ad this, you will see that Leica is made for bodybuilder.

Agree with regard to the SL lenses.

Let’s not forget M lenses, though, for which the SL system is nicely suited.

Those who place a high value on lighter weight may be after the SL2 instead of an M body, to shoot with M glass.  Or at least have that as a lightweight system configuration option.

There’s definitely a subsegment of the market who have used the SL in that configuration.