Should I wait for SL 2 ?

[Guest]

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8 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Thanks for the information. I hope the Chinese buy the Blackstone stake. This will bring great software capabilities to Leica to compete against Panasonic, Sony, and Olympus. It’s too late to derail the SL2, btw. It’s coming.

Hopefully before Christmas. Christmas and birthdays are the only excuses for me to buy new gear

[sillbeers15]

On 8/2/2019 at 2:03 PM, helged said:

The largest difference between SL and S1R, in my view, is IBIS. It works very, very well for hand-hold photography. The ~5 stop longer shutter speed is more than Panasonic selling talk, it is real. 

It is good to hear the stabilisation improvement. As it is a real value added aid to photographers I am also looking forward to AF tracking improvements on S1R & SL2.

[colonel]

Late to this party !!

Leica SL retail is £4,800, however available for £3,200 new now. Excellent second hand for £2,800

Leica SL2 will be (finger in air) £5,500 (based on recent Leica price trends)

So 45% more (new for new, or used for used)

SL2 will have: 1. More pixels; 2. Maybe IBIS (maybe not); 3. More focus points; 4. Maybe Bluetooth (maybe not); 4. 1 stop more ISO sensitivity; 5. .33-.5 more dynamic range

Is that extra worth it to you for the premium ?

For some yes (see how fast the Q2 is flying off the shelves), for others, like me, not much.

no doubt I will buy an SL2 in 4 years

 

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb colonel:

SL2 will have: 1. More pixels; 2. Maybe IBIS (maybe not); 3. More focus points; 4. Maybe Bluetooth (maybe not); 4. 1 stop more ISO sensitivity; 5. .33-.5 more dynamic range

Better algos, I hope, and the rest will follow. Sony has shown what better algos can do for a 42.6 MPx FF sensor and soon for a 60 MPx one. Panasonic followed with essentially the same sensor in the S1R as in the Q2 but with a better DxOMark score. 😂 SL2 with Huawei inside perhaps? 

vor einer Stunde schrieb colonel:

2. Maybe IBIS (maybe not);

Maybe not ‘maybe not.’

Edited August 19, 2019 by Chaemono

[Jeff S]

Leica has emphasized, in addition to more MP for the S3, a new color array, especially  better reds.  Maybe some similar improvements could be in store for the SL2.

Jeff

[Tailwagger]

Hmmm... just noticed the price for the S1R dropped $700, no doubt a response to the Sony.  Whither the Leica? The longer it takes, the more difficult things become.

[m9photo]

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If they priced it right, $5-$6k, I'd seriously consider selling my SL and Q.

[colonel]

I know you guys see the Panasonic S1 as competition to the SL.

I dont

if I was going for a conventional mirrorless the A7 iii remains supreme

the SL has the presence, colours, acuity and workflow that is typical quirky Leica, and I love it

Acknowledging this is a minority pursuit

I do however think the L lenses coming from Sigma and Panasonic have widened the appeal and potential market, and lowered the entry point. A bit like buying a M240 and Voigtlander as an entry to the M system. “Not too dusty”, as my late grandfather used to say ...

Now I have shot with the SL I won’t be going back to other mirrorless .....

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by colonel

[Chaemono]

Someone else alluded to the very few reviews of the Panasonic FF bodies on B&H as an interpretation that they are not selling well. They have the best IBIS but are big AND ugly as DSLRs with worse AF performance. Sony, Nikon, and Canon went with smaller form factors and arguably worse lenses but at least they appeal to prosumers who can’t tell the difference in lens IQ by looking at online pics anyway. The SL2 will likely be as big but unlikely as ugly. The question is, how much are better haptics, beautiful industrial design, ease of use, and intuitive users interface worth assuming equal sensor and algorithm performance to the very best mirrorless FF cameras out there. $7,500? 

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

The question is, how much are better haptics, beautiful industrial design, ease of use, and intuitive users interface worth assuming equal sensor and algorithm performance to the very best mirrorless FF cameras out there. $7,500? 

Bingo. That, and for some of us, how much better will the SL2 will perform with M-glass. Oh, and not to be too pessimistic, but what the landscape will look like by the time it's actually released.  No one is standing still. 

[Jeff S]

The price landscape is changing as well, as recently evidenced by the X1Dii intro at $5750 compared to the $9k X1D launch.

It will be interesting to see both the S3 and SL2 market positioning.  

Jeff

Edited August 19, 2019 by Jeff S

[lykaman]

On 8/16/2019 at 1:18 AM, NW67 said:

Hopefully before Christmas. Christmas and birthdays are the only excuses for me to buy new gear

Try the Jewish Calendar, we have loads of "Holidays" for gifting ourselves.. -

Sunday

Aug 11, 2019

Tish'a B'Av.   Gifted. myself an Apple Watch 4/GPS--

🖐️ Rabbi Overhear Please" 

Edited August 19, 2019 by lykaman

[dkmoore]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

The price landscape is changing as well, as recently evidenced by the X1Dii intro at $5750 compared the the $9k X1D launch.

It will be interesting to see both the S3 and SL2 market positioning.  

Jeff

I don't think Hasselblad's price reduction is indicative of the price landscape changing. I think them being bought by a non-camera company and going through multiple management changes is more the culprit. 

Before responding I checked out current pricing and the Sony, Canon, Nikon, and Panasonic offerings are all about $3k for body only. This is the same price of similar level cameras 4-5 years ago from Canon and Nikon (5d & 800). Additionally, Sony and Leica are selling compact cameras for over $1k for the past 5+ years.

I love your optimism but I doubt the SL2 will be anything less than $7,500.00.

The more interesting is definitely the S3. I think the S3 would be dead in the water if they price it like the S2 with so many cameras (including the OG SL) having such great image quality that is not far off of the pseudo medium format sensor of the S line and *lenses that definitely rival S lenses*  

Edited August 20, 2019 by dkmoore

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, dkmoore said:

I don't think Hasselblad's price reduction is indicative of the price landscape changing. I think them being bought by a non-camera company and going through multiple management changes is more the culprit. 

Before responding I checked out current pricing and the Sony, Canon, Nikon, and Panasonic offerings are all about $3k for body only. This is the same price of similar level cameras 4-5 years ago from Canon and Nikon (5d & 800). Additionally, Sony and Leica are selling compact cameras for over $1k for the past 5+ years.

I love your optimism but I doubt the SL2 will be anything less than $7,500.00.

The more interesting is definitely the S3. I think the S3 would be dead in the water if they price it like the S2 with so many cameras (including the OG SL) having such great image quality that is not far off of the pseudo medium format sensor of the S line.  

I wasn’t expressing any optimism, just context.  The MF pricing landscape already changed dramatically after the $25+k initial S system launch, which was followed by the roughly $10k Pentax 645 digital, and now the various Fuji MF products that are surely keeping Hasselblad honest.  The SL price has also come down significantly as it aged. But Leica always walks its own way, which is why I only said “it will be interesting to see the S3 and SL2 market positioning.”  The rest (including references to Canikon, etc) is your own context and interpretation. 

Jeff

[Chaemono]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Tailwagger:

No one is standing still. 

In order to stay ahead, everyone is developing smaller and smaller pixels (Sony could in theory scale their smart phone image sensors to 1.3 GPx in FF) and then enhancing the performance through algorithms. It's in the latter where Leica would be left behind. Hence, an alliance with Huawei is so critical.

[helged]

To wait or not to wait is a question of a month or so, apparently: https://leicarumors.com/2019/08/19/leica-sl2-rumored-to-be-announced-in-september.aspx/

Edited August 20, 2019 by helged

[Joakim]

43 minutes ago, helged said:

To wait or not to wait is a question of a month or so, apparently: https://leicarumors.com/2019/08/19/leica-sl2-rumored-to-be-announced-in-september.aspx/

Some believe (hope) that it will be the S3 that comes in September... 

[Chaemono]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb Joakim:

Some believe (hope) that it will be the S3 that comes in September... 

The S3 was already announced. 😁 Availability of the S3 in September and the SL2 in November which will have been announced in September. It makes perfect sense. 

[hillavoider]

so SL2 in September.... i'd say more then 47 megapickles or why bother right? I hope its cheaper?? 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[dkmoore]

12 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I wasn’t expressing any optimism, just context.  The MF pricing landscape already changed dramatically after the $25+k initial S system launch, which was followed by the roughly $10k Pentax 645 digital, and now the various Fuji MF products that are surely keeping Hasselblad honest.  The SL price has also come down significantly as it aged. But Leica always walks its own way, which is why I only said “it will be interesting to see the S3 and SL2 market positioning.”  The rest (including references to Canikon, etc) is your own context and interpretation. 

Jeff

Not an interpretation at all in regards to pricing. Your comments are on the SL forum so I understood your reasoning to be about camera pricing in general (not just one small subset - the smallest subset- medium format) and the pricing landscape really hasn't changed in the past 5+ years. That isn't my interpretation when it is easily proven out with fact.

Either way, I am curious as well. The M10 was priced more reasonably then I expected at launch so maybe the SL and S3 will have a similar fate. I could see the S3 launch point at $15,900.00 and SL at $7,590.00.