Jeff S Posted August 20, 2019 Share #141 Posted August 20, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 38 minutes ago, dkmoore said: Not an interpretation at all in regards to pricing. Your comments are on the SL forum so I understood your reasoning to be about camera pricing in general (not just one small subset - the smallest subset- medium format) and the pricing landscape really hasn't changed in the past 5+ years. That isn't my interpretation when it is easily proven out with fact. Either way, I am curious as well. The M10 was priced more reasonably then I expected at launch so maybe the SL and S3 will have a similar fate. I could see the S3 launch point at $15,900.00 and SL at $7,590.00. Funny then that the thread “Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D”, which appears in this forum, is now up to 125 pages and almost 2500 comments. I, for one, am contemplating buying the X1Dii, but not before I see what the SL2 has to offer. Digital MF is a marketing term for those of us who experienced film MF. I’m less interested in sensor size than VF experience, lens line, ergonomics and handling, control interface, etc. IQ has hardly been an issue for years considering all the many company offerings... across various sensor sizes. As far as ‘interpretations’, I should have used the term ‘predictions’ to distinguish our comments. You offered an industry context, then predicted a product price point for Leica I don’t play the prediction/ guessing game; we’ll know soon enough. I merely offered some context, which to me was relevant to the SL, at least from a buyer standpoint. Leica marches to its own beat product-wise and price-wise, so I won’t be surprised, just interested how they approach things, including the S. Jeff 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 20, 2019 Posted August 20, 2019 Hi Jeff S, Take a look here Should I wait for SL 2 ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Fedro Posted August 20, 2019 Share #142 Posted August 20, 2019 the X1D is an amazing camera, and so is the SL. I am planning to keep both (the SL will decide whether to upgrade based on specs) The SL would be worth keeping even just for the zoom lenses 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted August 20, 2019 Share #143 Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) I never compare cameras of different sensor size. Doesn't have any upside ... X1D vs SL never crossed my mind. The former is slow, worse handling, more expensive and more plasticky. A completely different type of camera. Its like comparing a Mamiya 7 vs Nikon F6. You have to entirely work out the FL/DOF/Def trade off and if the picture difference is for you. You will get practically the same Def from the SL2 anyway (opps - leak). Also you should take a look at the Fuji GFX range. If you plan to buy a SL used, I wouldn't wait, buy it now. Lens stock will be crazy once the new one is launched, and, if the Q2 is anything to go by, the price will be higher then the SL was originaly - safeguarding used prices somewhat I wonder if they will keep the SL as an extry level ? might be an SL-E ?? Edited August 20, 2019 by colonel 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 20, 2019 Share #144 Posted August 20, 2019 With 1 GPx FF sensors, Quad Bayer filter, clever algorithms for signal processing and RAW file cooking MF will eventually become obsolete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted August 20, 2019 Share #145 Posted August 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, Chaemono said: With 1 GPx FF sensors, Quad Bayer filter, clever algorithms for signal processing and RAW file cooking MF will eventually become obsolete. . . and probably FF for that matter! 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted August 20, 2019 Share #146 Posted August 20, 2019 51 minutes ago, colonel said: X1D vs SL never crossed my mind. The former is slow, worse handling, more expensive and more plasticky. A completely different type of camera. Its like comparing a Mamiya 7 vs Nikon F6. You have to entirely work out the FL/DOF/Def trade off and if the picture difference is for you. You will get practically the same Def from the SL2 anyway (opps - leak). Also you should take a look at the Fuji GFX range. they are very different, in fact I find them complimentary but having both I find the SL faster and more solid (btw it is heavier too), however the X1D has better handling and ergonomics. In terms of costs I think they are now similar. I am not sure when you checked last, but the X1D Mk2 is priced at 5.4k GBP, I don't think the SL2 will be cheaper than that They will have a similar number of MP, but they will render differently in a MF (albeit cropped) vs a 35mm and I would expect the X1D and GFX to retain better details than the SL2 despite the MP bump Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted August 20, 2019 Share #147 Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 minutes ago, Fedro said: they are very different, in fact I find them complimentary but having both I find the SL faster and more solid (btw it is heavier too), however the X1D has better handling and ergonomics. In terms of costs I think they are now similar. I am not sure when you checked last, but the X1D Mk2 is priced at 5.4k GBP, I don't think the SL2 will be cheaper than that They will have a similar number of MP, but they will render differently in a MF (albeit cropped) vs a 35mm and I would expect the X1D and GFX to retain better details than the SL2 despite the MP bump The SL is currently £3,195 new (see red dot comareas, or other companies and take of £1,300 trade-in bonus which they give with no trade in) The SL2, you are right, will be the same ball park. But apart from the Sensor size and absolute weight, will be a superior camera in every way IMHO rgds Edited August 20, 2019 by colonel 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 20, 2019 Share #148 Posted August 20, 2019 vor 28 Minuten schrieb jonoslack: . . and probably FF for that matter! The Huawei Noctilux phone will be all we need in the future. Less noise and nice details in the dark areas in low light at the same time. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted August 20, 2019 Share #149 Posted August 20, 2019 1 minute ago, colonel said: The SL is currently £3,195 new (see red dot comareas, or other companies and take of £1,300 trade-in bonus which they give with no trade in) The SL2, you are right, will be the same ball park. But apart from the Sensor size and absolute weight, will be a superior camera in every way IMHO rgds indeed. btw it's not just weight; ergonomics are much better too. not sure whether you have used both extensively and whether you have used them with the native lenses, but when Dr Kaufmann himself says that the SL was built with an axe, he is stating the obvious .. the SL is a great camera, but ergonomics are not one of its strengths that is one area that I would love to see improved with the SL2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted August 20, 2019 Share #150 Posted August 20, 2019 33 minutes ago, Fedro said: indeed. btw it's not just weight; ergonomics are much better too. not sure whether you have used both extensively and whether you have used them with the native lenses, but when Dr Kaufmann himself says that the SL was built with an axe, he is stating the obvious .. the SL is a great camera, but ergonomics are not one of its strengths that is one area that I would love to see improved with the SL2 I have only played with the X1D, so will take your word for it But the SL is so much nicer and solid. I think the handling is terrific 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 20, 2019 Share #151 Posted August 20, 2019 vor 6 Minuten schrieb colonel: I have only played with the X1D, so will take your word for it But the SL is so much nicer and solid. I think the handling is terrific +1. Yes, but the X1D grip gives one a warm and fuzzy feeling. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted August 20, 2019 Share #152 Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, jonoslack said: . . and probably FF for that matter! Any chance making LENR obsolete in SL successor? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted August 20, 2019 Share #153 Posted August 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, mmradman said: Any chance making LENR obsolete in SL successor? I would love that Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 20, 2019 Share #154 Posted August 20, 2019 vor 2 Minuten schrieb Fedro: I would love that Tilty flippy screen for selfies would be nice, too. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2019 Share #155 Posted August 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, Chaemono said: +1. Yes, but the X1D grip gives one a warm and fuzzy feeling. I had the SL and thought it felt like a brick. The X1D is sexy and from what I hear the X1D II is sexy on drugs. Saying all of the above I also have the Q2 and the sensor on that puppy hits all the right spots for me. I need a perfect body for my Naughtlux so I’m hoping the SL2 ticks all the boxes and they have rounded off some of those ugly bits. The M10 is okay but nothing special when used with my Naughtlux. As for MF I’m done with that. It’s all in the classified section for a steel. Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted August 20, 2019 Share #156 Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Chaemono said: Tilty flippy screen for selfies would be nice, too. and IBIS - I am ok with more weight, as long as ergonomics/grip improve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron777 Posted August 20, 2019 Share #157 Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Chaemono said: Tilty flippy screen for selfies would be nice, too. Real men (photographers) don't take selfies, it's too narcissistic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2019 Share #158 Posted August 20, 2019 1 minute ago, ron777 said: Real men (photographers) don't take selfies, it's too narcissistic. I use a selfie stick with my M10 and Noctilux Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted August 20, 2019 Share #159 Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, NW67 said: I had the SL and thought it felt like a brick. Oh! I’ve shot lots of weddings and events with my SL over the past 5? Years and it’s always been an absolute brick! i love the handling, grip, shape. My only gripe is they the edges do hurt when you whack ‘em on your hip! I’ve held it one handed all day many times (sometimes with the 90-280 attached but mostly with the 24-90)......and I’m just a skinny old man! certainly the best camera I’ve ever owned m 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2019 Share #160 Posted August 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, jonoslack said: Oh! I’ve shot lots of weddings and events with my SL over the past 5? Years and it’s always been an absolute brick! Exactly. You are among many on here that agree 100% about the brick feeling. Hopefullg SL2 will feel different ly neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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