rivi1969 Posted January 26, 2020 Share #161 Posted January 26, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 40 minutes ago, pedaes said: OK, if Michael said it, it must be true. Thet are great cameras, enjoy yours. I think the M9 will continue to loose less than the others because of the CCD sensor. I will not be selling mine anytime soon though! Agree. Both my M8 and M9P are keepers, they will never be up for sale. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 26, 2020 Posted January 26, 2020 Hi rivi1969, Take a look here Leica Refurbished CCD M9 and M9p for sale . .. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Raid Amin Posted January 26, 2020 Share #162 Posted January 26, 2020 I never made any effort to get another M9 this way from Leica as I already own and use an M9 (with its third sensor) and an M8. Eventually. both camera will most likely die and will be moved to the great graveyard of old digital cameras. Then, I may be using some other cameras. Life moves forward. I still have my M3 and M6 and the Standard Leica to enjoy as long as film is available and developing is possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 26, 2020 Share #163 Posted January 26, 2020 2 hours ago, rivi1969 said: Because that is what Michel from Leica Customer Service told me. Otherwise how come a 9-year old camera could have 100 or even 1000 shutter clicks and look absolutely like new? The previous owners kept it in a safe? It just seems so strange to go to so much effort and needless expense when they have a load of cameras that have been traded in at hand. I've seen quite a few MM1s with fewer than 1000 actuations for sale at various dealers. I don't know if other owners are like me but as I still shoot digital as if it's film. My own M9 which is a very early one still has less than 10.000. Not particularly for keeping it "safe" though... it's brassing nicely 🙂 I guess the serial numbers of these refurbished cameras may give some indication of their history as demo models probably have very early serial numbers. Anyway, as written before, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that people were fortunate enough to buy - at a very good price - as new CCD cameras. 🙂 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charadis Posted January 27, 2020 Share #164 Posted January 27, 2020 Concerning the previous life of our refurbished M9 a la cartes, this is a section of the response that Michel had sent me from a few months ago when I inquired about the shutter count being >2000 actuations: Quote Concerning your last question: Yes you are right. It´s possible that your camera shows you more or less shutters than in reality. This can be an software bug in the past, but not the real shutter count. Please note, that these cameras were demonstration cameras in the Leica Stores showcases. For this reason all cameras has not many shutters. I do want to just shout out that he has been extremely helpful with my order, and I loved the results of the camera so much, regardless of the history behind this M9, that I sent it back for a couple subtle "upgrades" including the Leica script engraving and the sapphire crystal display cover. It took a couple months, and I sent it back as soon as I returned back from the Philippines. Honestly, I was unsure how the engraving would look against a darker color than silver chrome. Suffice to say, I am extremely satisfied with the end result. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It might just be me, but it seems the sapphire crystal cover upgrade has a darker border than what I've seen in pictures of the M9-P? Regardless...I still put a screen protector on it. 🙂 Beautiful camera, and even more beautiful pictures. I hope this will be my lifelong friend.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It might just be me, but it seems the sapphire crystal cover upgrade has a darker border than what I've seen in pictures of the M9-P? Regardless...I still put a screen protector on it. 🙂 Beautiful camera, and even more beautiful pictures. I hope this will be my lifelong friend.. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/299748-leica-refurbished-ccd-m9-and-m9p-for-sale/?do=findComment&comment=3900407'>More sharing options...
T25UFO Posted January 27, 2020 Share #165 Posted January 27, 2020 7 hours ago, Charadis said: Concerning the previous life of our refurbished M9 a la cartes, this is a section of the response that Michel had sent me from a few months ago when I inquired about the shutter count being >2000 actuations: I do want to just shout out that he has been extremely helpful with my order, and I loved the results of the camera so much, regardless of the history behind this M9, that I sent it back for a couple subtle "upgrades" including the Leica script engraving and the sapphire crystal display cover. It took a couple months, and I sent it back as soon as I returned back from the Philippines. Honestly, I was unsure how the engraving would look against a darker color than silver chrome. Suffice to say, I am extremely satisfied with the end result. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It might just be me, but it seems the sapphire crystal cover upgrade has a darker border than what I've seen in pictures of the M9-P? Regardless...I still put a screen protector on it. 🙂 Beautiful camera, and even more beautiful pictures. I hope this will be my lifelong friend.. The Leica script looks perfect - definitely worth the addition. Another 👍for Michel from me as well. Really nice and helpful person to deal with. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivi1969 Posted January 27, 2020 Share #166 Posted January 27, 2020 Charadis, basically you have a unique ”M9.2” very beautiful! I can’t tell about the dark borders of my M9P because I put it and screen protector too. 😁 Glad to see you are enjoying hour camera. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charadis Posted January 29, 2020 Share #167 Posted January 29, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 1/27/2020 at 3:29 AM, T25UFO said: The Leica script looks perfect - definitely worth the addition. Another 👍for Michel from me as well. Really nice and helpful person to deal with. It definitely was, but almost decided not to go through with it; shipping was going to run 200 - 300 by UPS. Quote for the engraving was 182USD. The cheapest I could ship was 162 by DHL without insurance (I figured if anything did go wrong... I mean, it's going to the Leica factory. Just bill me whatever). I wonder how people here are shipping their cameras back?? It's so expensive On 1/27/2020 at 8:02 AM, rivi1969 said: Charadis, basically you have a unique ”M9.2” very beautiful! I can’t tell about the dark borders of my M9P because I put it and screen protector too. 😁 Glad to see you are enjoying hour camera. haha, I was just reading about the 8.2 recently, it seems I'll just need the black dot now! In some pictures, the border looks grey, in others, dark like mine. Just curious about it because I was expecting the jewel icon to be more prominent, but it could just be different angles of light against the border making it look grey or silver. Absolutely, took over a thousand pics on my last trip! Hope you had a fun time in China, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 30, 2020 Share #168 Posted January 30, 2020 On 1/26/2020 at 5:37 PM, ianman said: I've seen quite a few MM1s with fewer than 1000 actuations for sale at various dealers. Not a MM1 but M9 with less than 200 actuations can still be found... https://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/m-bodies/15910-leica-m9-black-boxed.html 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raid Amin Posted January 30, 2020 Share #169 Posted January 30, 2020 F do use it have the new sensor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivi1969 Posted January 30, 2020 Share #170 Posted January 30, 2020 Yes it has new CCD sensor. Wow, 2400 Pounds are USD $3150... $300 more of what I paid for my M9P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 30, 2020 Share #171 Posted January 30, 2020 No talking about the price.... just that they can be found. Someone mentioned or implied that only demo cameras would have a low count. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 30, 2020 Share #172 Posted January 30, 2020 On 1/26/2020 at 10:56 AM, pedaes said: What do you think Leica did with all the cameras they took in as part of the 'upgrade' programme ? From the Leica website: "Leica traded up many users in the sensor replacement scheme, and as a result had a good stock of bodies and sensors, it seemed silly to let them go to waste." To be honest, if I had bought one of these, I would have preferred it to be a traded-in rather than a demo unit. Demo cameras are not specially well treated by the loads of people who handle them. A traded in camera on the other hand is more likely to have been treated with respect by it's owner. And I still think that using traded in cameras rather than buying back and shipping demo units back from dealers. How many demo units can there be? Surely a very limited number and probably much less than trade-ins. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted January 30, 2020 Share #173 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, ianman said: How many demo units can there be? The Leica UK (Duke St.) store is currently advertising an ex-demo M9-P https://store.leica-camera.com/uk/en/m9-p-black-boxed-ex-demo Interesting to know it's history as M9's haven't been current for some years and I thought they would have identified any leftovers when they move from Bruton Place some while ago. The sensor was changed in February so I suspect it has been sent by Wetzlar who may now be describing all refurbs as 'ex-demo'. Edited January 30, 2020 by pedaes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivi1969 Posted January 30, 2020 Share #174 Posted January 30, 2020 What I said, is that 300 or so shutter clicks for a 10-year old camera is and extremely low number. 30 clicks per year? Leica stores are not like Best Buy, it might pass days before someone comes in and grab a camera to take pictures inside the store. So yes, I believe what Leica told me that those 300 M9 cameras were demos meaning never owned before by another person. But again, if someone bought it and kept it in a safe for 10 years and somehow ended at Leica Wetzlar, makes no difference. What I see is these cameras are reaching cult status, like a Ford Bronco from the 70's, who a refurb could be easily be sold in 100,000 USD when a new Ford SUV with all the latest tech goes for less than 30 and will lose 50% of its value in 3 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 30, 2020 Share #175 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) But why do you think that the cameras with 300 or whatever shutter actuations are 10 years old? Or were used for 10 years? Even today, the oldest M9s are even now only barely 10 years old. Also, where did that figure of 300 actuations come from? From what I've read in this thread the cameras have more like 3000+ clicks. Which seems a lot for a demo. It's not even a question of "keeping it safe for 10 years". It's quite possible that these cameras where used for 3 years or less before they were traded in. I bought mine in September 09, when they first came out. By 2012 I was already seeing the corrosion issue although I don't know what it was at the time and I don't think it had been acknowledged at that time. So after 3 years, I was not using it anymore and even before that I never used it like a machine gun. I think it had just over 3000. So roughly 1000/year, which for my style of shooting is a lot (I wrote previously that I come from film and still today have that feeling that every click is costing me!! - and I'm sure I'm not the only one) Only after the new sensor was developed did I get it changed, this was in the summer of 2016. So if I had traded in my M9 at that time it would have been used for 3 years... and that was one of the first M9s. So it wouldn't be hard to image someone buying the camera in 2011 or 2012 and hardly using the thing until corrosion appeared. In a nutshell I do believe (and hope for the buyers sake) that these cameras are like mine, so with 3000 or so clicks when the corrosion appeared and remained unused until trade in or sensor exchange. I don't think it's so farfetched as it's my very situation, although I decided not to trade. So these cameras being "demos", for a load of reasons sounds like the person at Leica who gave out this information was mistaken. 1/ it's contradicted by Leicas own website 2/ It makes no business sense for reasons previously outlined 3/ As we have seen in post 173, Leica stores are still selling demo units themselves. Edit: Just to be clear, again, these cameras being refurbished rather than demos is IMHO a GOOD thing ! 🙂 Edited January 30, 2020 by ianman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivi1969 Posted January 30, 2020 Share #176 Posted January 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, ianman said: But why do you think that the cameras with 300 or whatever shutter actuations are 10 years old? Or were used for 10 years? Even today, the oldest M9s are even now only barely 10 years old. Also, where did that figure of 300 actuations come from? From what I've read in this thread the cameras have more like 3000+ clicks. Which seems a lot for a demo. It's not even a question of "keeping it safe for 10 years". It's quite possible that these cameras where used for 3 years or less before they were traded in. I bought mine in September 09, when they first came out. By 2012 I was already seeing the corrosion issue although I don't know what it was at the time and I don't think it had been acknowledged at that time. So after 3 years, I was not using it anymore and even before that I never used it like a machine gun. I think it had just over 3000. So roughly 1000/year, which for my style of shooting is a lot (I wrote previously that I come from film and still today have that feeling that every click is costing me!! - and I'm sure I'm not the only one) Only after the new sensor was developed did I get it changed, this was in the summer of 2016. So if I had traded in my M9 at that time it would have been used for 3 years... and that was one of the first M9s. So it wouldn't be hard to image someone buying the camera in 2011 or 2012 and hardly using the thing until corrosion appeared. In a nutshell I do believe (and hope for the buyers sake) that these cameras are like mine, so with 3000 or so clicks when the corrosion appeared and remained unused until trade in or sensor exchange. I don't think it's so farfetched as it's my very situation, although I decided not to trade. So these cameras being "demos", for a load of reasons sounds like the person at Leica who gave out this information was mistaken. 1/ it's contradicted by Leicas own website 2/ It makes no business sense for reasons previously outlined 3/ As we have seen in post 173, Leica stores are still selling demo units themselves. Edit: Just to be clear, again, these cameras being refurbished rather than demos is IMHO a GOOD thing ! 🙂 "Also, where did that figure of 300 actuations come from?" Because the new buyers have a piece of paper from Leica with the number of actuations of their cameras. ""these cameras being refurbished rather than demos..." These are demos, who went through the refurb program. But whatever, you win, Leica is lying. End of story... HAPPY? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 30, 2020 Share #177 Posted January 30, 2020 52 minutes ago, rivi1969 said: "Also, where did that figure of 300 actuations come from?" Because the new buyers have a piece of paper from Leica with the number of actuations of their cameras. Just a quick reminder... On 10/13/2019 at 2:00 AM, rivi1969 said: I found the camera came with 3,000 shutter clicks Others have reported similar figures! 50 minutes ago, rivi1969 said: But whatever, you win, Leica is lying. End of story... HAPPY? Ummmm, I think you have got the wrong end of the stick. I've written over and over again that I think this program is really good and that it's good to see users being able to buy as new M9s. So I'm not quite sure why you are getting all hot under the collar. Nobody is trying to pick a fight or to "win" anything. As for lying... I used the word "mistaken" for a reason. That reason being that there is contradicting information coming from Leica (that's not a first!!). The "shutter designed for 50.000 actuations" mentioned at the beginning of the thread turned out to be a mistake too. There is as reason behind the thinking going on here. If these are really demo units and Leica is buying back and paying the cost to get them shipped back to Germany, cleaning them, replacing the sensor, full CLA, etc. rather than using low shutter count trade in cameras that are already in Germany and just collecting dust (and probably costing storage too)... then one would have to wonder why they would go to so much trouble and expense to do this for the M9, a camera considered by many to be vastly inferior to the M(240). So why choose to offer this program with the M9 rather than the M(240)? Anyway, I'm happy to end the discussion if you want to but do try to remain civil and calm. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchinson14 Posted February 3, 2020 Share #178 Posted February 3, 2020 Just been advised that my Monochrom camera should be with me by Wednesday this week. Looking forward to it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchinson14 Posted February 4, 2020 Share #179 Posted February 4, 2020 It’s arrived !!! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/299748-leica-refurbished-ccd-m9-and-m9p-for-sale/?do=findComment&comment=3906008'>More sharing options...
hutchinson14 Posted February 4, 2020 Share #180 Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) Just out of the box Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 4, 2020 by hutchinson14 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/299748-leica-refurbished-ccd-m9-and-m9p-for-sale/?do=findComment&comment=3906011'>More sharing options...
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