007 vs Hassy x1-D

[Jeff S]

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2 minutes ago, aksclix said:

Didn’t know they do that.. anyway, that was just an example and while we compare we don’t do what they do so we can still do a fair enough comparison 

Then you would be changing the results from the pictures you requested in the first place, without access to that person’s screen (or print).  So you might as well conduct your own trials, with full knowledge of input and output.

Jeff

[Stuart Richardson]

/Nevermind. Ran out of space, so cannot make the point I was trying to with images.

Just wanted to say that I don't think you are bugging us. I would love to help, but it is difficult to do for this specific question. I could go out and shoot the exact same photo with both an SL2 and S3 and show you the photos, but it is really just the beginning of the story. It would be much easier to do with you here at the studio, unfortunately! Showing the whole workflow...the trade-offs, how each behaves. Single images out of camera are important, but kind of like taking a single page out of novel...maybe even the most important page, but still just a page.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Stuart Richardson

[aksclix]

26 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

/Nevermind. Ran out of space, so cannot make the point I was trying to with images.

Just wanted to say that I don't think you are bugging us. I would love to help, but it is difficult to do for this specific question. I could go out and shoot the exact same photo with both an SL2 and S3 and show you the photos, but it is really just the beginning of the story. It would be much easier to do with you here at the studio, unfortunately! Showing the whole workflow...the trade-offs, how each behaves. Single images out of camera are important, but kind of like taking a single page out of novel...maybe even the most important page, but still just a page.

 

 

cool then  and just to be clear, I am trying to get a comparison of s 007 and x1d not SL2.. 

 

[ocean2059]

I have used the three mini-MF systems we are discussing here. I started with S2 in 2014 and am still using the same camera but build my lenses over the years. About two years ago, I had an opportunity, which I couldn’t refuse, to purchase a Fuji FGX50S with few prime lenses and I since added two zoom lenses. Early last year, I got an XD1 with 45/3.5 lens. I am not a professional and I just shoot for my own enjoyment. I do travel photography of cities and national parks. I print regularly, mostly 20 x 30 size.  I use either S2 or GFX50S as a full system on my trips. But I don’t mix the two. For city trips, I just take the XD1 with the 45/3.5 lens.

The advantages and disadvantages of these cameras (hardware) have been fully discussed in term of body (DSLR vs mirrorless), autofocus (speed and accuracy), and stabilization system (lens and body). The image qualities produced by these three systems are all exceptional. I am very happy with all three systems. But there are subtle differences in rendering styles and color accuracy of each system, which I can see when viewing large batch of images (few hundreds) of one system vs the other, on an 5K monitor. But I don’t think seeing few images with A/B comparison on internet will be helpful. You really need to evaluate them on your own.

Here is my own take on the three system based my own experience: Hasselblad has the best color accuracy; Fuji’s film simulation is very nice and flexible; and Leica S2/006 has the most pleasing and seductive color and smoothest rendering style. I will happily live with any one of these. But if I give the choice to just pick one system, I will definitely go with Leica S. But this is just my own preferences. Others may arrive at different conclusions based on their preferences. 

[tom0511]

I know....not scientific, depends on converter, profile, processing,....

anyways - S007+70mm f2.5, SL2+50mm f1.8 (for comparable dof), x1d+80mm at f2.4, all converted in LR (and yes, I know phocus is slightly better for hassy, and c1 for the SL2,...); I somewhat cropped to get the same area

so which image which system? (this is just behind my house for fun, and no, it is not the typical subject I shoot; but I wont post images of people/family in the internet)

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Edited January 26, 2021 by tom0511

[tom0511]

Hassy and Leica S007, same conditions; you can see both cams focused slightly different; one more on the roof, one on the flower (where I intended to focus)

 

 

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Edited January 26, 2021 by tom0511

[tom0511]

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each time I do things like this my conclusion is that it doesnt lead to much.

 

[plasticman]

1 hour ago, tom0511 said:

each time I do things like this my conclusion is that it doesnt lead to much.

 

Indeed! I appreciate your efforts though! I don't think anyone should see any of these systems as insufficient these days - that would be absurd. The amount of detail and latitude is incredible in these systems. I've been idly thinking about an X1D (there are a few ex-demos still around) and getting a 45mm ƒ4 to go with it - but really now I'd be more interested in how people feel about using the camera, than the image comparisons. Flickr has some pretty big examples (but still jpeg files) to look at, and a few RAW files have been posted on various review sites. But like I said, at this level of sensor-performance, comparing online jpegs is rather futile.

[Jeff S]

53 minutes ago, plasticman said:

I've been idly thinking about an X1D (there are a few ex-demos still around) and getting a 45mm ƒ4 to go with it - but really now I'd be more interested in how people feel about using the camera, than the image comparisons. 

In case you missed this from Hugh Brownstone...

Jeff

[aksclix]

3 hours ago, tom0511 said:

each time I do things like this my conclusion is that it doesnt lead to much.

 

thank you for making an effort to do that.. can't tell much from these pictures anyway but it looks like none of the systems are going to fail you so we can't go wrong any of the choices.. 

[John McMaster]

20 hours ago, aksclix said:

today, I think sharper images are more what people are chasing rather than smoother rendering.. and I am one of them.. I don’t really care for smoother rendering to be honest..

The S is probably not for you then, it has a lovely mix of sharpness but smooth rendering.   Easily my preference of the S vs SL in #185....

john

[aksclix]

7 minutes ago, John McMaster said:

The S is probably not for you then, it has a lovely mix of sharpness but smooth rendering.   Easily my preference of the S vs SL in #185....

john

yep.. though, if I could afford to keep both, I would..  

[ropo54]

3 hours ago, plasticman said:

Indeed! I appreciate your efforts though! I don't think anyone should see any of these systems as insufficient these days - that would be absurd. The amount of detail and latitude is incredible in these systems. I've been idly thinking about an X1D (there are a few ex-demos still around) and getting a 45mm ƒ4 to go with it - but really now I'd be more interested in how people feel about using the camera, than the image comparisons. Flickr has some pretty big examples (but still jpeg files) to look at, and a few RAW files have been posted on various review sites. But like I said, at this level of sensor-performance, comparing online jpegs is rather futile.

Hugh Brownstone's review which Jeff S posted is spot on.  The X1D with 45P is an absolute pleasure to use. Yes, it is not the fastest shooter, it is slow to capture action, and there is shutter lag.  And, I wish it had a toggle switch like the SL line for auto focus, but there's not a more comfortable camera to hold, the weight and mass is not an issue, and the images are beautiful. 

Comparatively, and this opinion is non-scientific and from a hobbyist's view, the SL line is more versatile, the S line produces the most satisfying images, but the X1D II with 45P is a joy for comfort and IQ if out for the day with one lens and one body. 

[ocean2059]

33 minutes ago, ropo54 said:

Hugh Brownstone's review which Jeff S posted is spot on.  The X1D with 45P is an absolute pleasure to use. Yes, it is not the fastest shooter, it is slow to capture action, and there is shutter lag.  And, I wish it had a toggle switch like the SL line for auto focus, but there's not a more comfortable camera to hold, the weight and mass is not an issue, and the images are beautiful. 

Comparatively, and this opinion is non-scientific and from a hobbyist's view, the SL line is more versatile, the S line produces the most satisfying images, but the X1D II with 45P is a joy for comfort and IQ if out for the day with one lens and one body. 

I share a similar view with you @ropo54.  I’ve used the X1D/45 (f3.5) for city walk and museum visits. While the electronics specs on XD1 are very rudimentary, the actual use interfaces are very intuitive and pleasant.  Since I got the XD1, I only pickup up my M240 few times last year. It’s not a replacement of M for me, but it shares a similar user interface. And you can set up everything with manual control. Couple of things one may have to live with: slow start-up; slow autofocus (but very accurate); and different lens shutter sound. For my own use, these don’t bother me at all.

Edited January 26, 2021 by ocean2059

[aksclix]

yep, agree with those comments.. its definitely a pleasure to hold and shoot with! ergonomics are sooo good! I got a brand new 45P to go with a used X1D.. I don't honestly think the start up time is that big an issue for me or may be its just faster with the latest 1.25 firmware? I don't find the focusing too slow either.. yes it's not super fast like today's FF mirrorless cameras but it's definitely not putting me off by any means.. I feel its fast enough for me.. you're never going to shoot any kind of action with this anyway.. to me, this is truly a tool for pleasure! BUT, I wanted the IQ to be of no compromise.. hence, I had to bug a few folks here to get some information  

[ropo54]

23 minutes ago, ocean2059 said:

I share a similar view with you @ropo54.  I’ve used the X1D/45 (f3.5) for city walk and museum visits. While the electronics specs on XD1 are very rudimentary, the actual use interfaces are very intuitive and pleasant.  Since I got the XD1, I only pickup up my M240 few times last year. It’s not a replacement of M for me, but it shares a similar user interface. And you can set up everything with manual control. Couple of things one may have to live with: slow start-up; slow autofocus (but very accurate); and different lens shutter sound. For my own use, these don’t bother me at all.

The X1D II has made major improvements in usability compared to the X1D.  No more bugs in operation!  Whether its worth the upgrade in price is a personal choice.

The 45 P lens is a pleasure to use. 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by ropo54

[ocean2059]

21 minutes ago, aksclix said:

yep, agree with those comments.. its definitely a pleasure to hold and shoot with! ergonomics are sooo good! I got a brand new 45P to go with a used X1D.. I don't honestly think the start up time is that big an issue for me or may be its just faster with the latest 1.25 firmware? I don't find the focusing too slow either.. yes it's not super fast like today's FF mirrorless cameras but it's definitely not putting me off by any means.. I feel its fast enough for me.. you're never going to shoot any kind of action with this anyway.. to me, this is truly a tool for pleasure! BUT, I wanted the IQ to be of no compromise.. hence, I had to bug a few folks here to get some information  

I don't think that you need to worry about any IQ "compromise" for the X1D and any of Hasselblad XD lenses. 

[ocean2059]

20 minutes ago, ropo54 said:

The X1D II has made major improvements in usability compared to the X1D.  No more bugs in operation!  Whether its worth the upgrade in price is a personal choice.

The 45 P lens is a pleasure to use. 

 

Thanks very much. So far, I am pretty happy with X1D as is. So I am not actively looking for an upgrade. But if an opportunity comes along, I will definitely consider it.  

[aksclix]

1 minute ago, ocean2059 said:

Thanks very much. So far, I am pretty happy with X1D as is. So I am not actively looking for an upgrade. But if an opportunity comes along, I will definitely consider it.  

me too.. with similar IQ offered by X1D II, the additional price tag isn't quite tempting.. if the 907x drops down below 4K I will probably consider swapping this X1D with that and it will be ONLY because of the moon related sentiment  

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[bags27]

16 hours ago, ocean2059 said:

 

I have used the three mini-MF systems we are discussing here. I started with S2 in 2014 and am still using the same camera but build my lenses over the years. About two years ago, I had an opportunity, which I couldn’t refuse, to purchase a Fuji FGX50S with few prime lenses and I since added two zoom lenses. Early last year, I got an XD1 with 45/3.5 lens. I am not a professional and I just shoot for my own enjoyment. I do travel photography of cities and national parks. I print regularly, mostly 20 x 30 size.  I use either S2 or GFX50S as a full system on my trips. But I don’t mix the two. For city trips, I just take the XD1 with the 45/3.5 lens.

The advantages and disadvantages of these cameras (hardware) have been fully discussed in term of body (DSLR vs mirrorless), autofocus (speed and accuracy), and stabilization system (lens and body). The image qualities produced by these three systems are all exceptional. I am very happy with all three systems. But there are subtle differences in rendering styles and color accuracy of each system, which I can see when viewing large batch of images (few hundreds) of one system vs the other, on an 5K monitor. But I don’t think seeing few images with A/B comparison on internet will be helpful. You really need to evaluate them on your own.

Here is my own take on the three system based my own experience: Hasselblad has the best color accuracy; Fuji’s film simulation is very nice and flexible; and Leica S2/006 has the most pleasing and seductive color and smoothest rendering style. I will happily live with any one of these. But if I give the choice to just pick one system, I will definitely go with Leica S. But this is just my own preferences. Others may arrive at different conclusions based on their preferences. 

I just bought a used Fuji GFX50R on a deal "I couldn't refuse" (horse's head and all 😀). I plan to use it mainly with my Mamiya 7 lens system (this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1552702-REG/fotodiox_my7_gfx_fsn_pro_fusion_smart_adapter.html).

Sean Reid carefully compared the Fuji and Hassy and, while I'm convinced through an oblique reference that he owns the Fuji, he seems to give an ever-so-slight nod to the Hassy's IQ. But the photos coming out of the Leica S are the most pleasing of all to me--of any digital camera, in fact. Had I deeper pockets and starting over, I'd collect S glass and maybe wait on a mirrorless version.

Of course, Fuji is coming out tomorrow with a $6k 100mp/IBIS GFXS that has a terrific form factor.....(though still with Fuji's often bewildering UI).

Edited January 26, 2021 by bags27