Photon42 Posted February 25, 2019 Share #81 Posted February 25, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 7 minutes ago, ynp said: Can I move the focus point and AF on the external monitor? Can I still use the joystick? Sorry for my questions, I still have the S2P and have no access to a SOO7. You could download the s007 manual 😂 But then, we only know what applies to the S3 once it is out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 25, 2019 Posted February 25, 2019 Hi Photon42, Take a look here Forthcoming S-lens(es).... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Stuart Richardson Posted February 25, 2019 Share #82 Posted February 25, 2019 14 hours ago, ZHNL said: Hi Stuart, I try to look for images 70mm for you. Here are a few random examples. They are not the ones I like to represent but for information only. You can click to see full size through the link. I hope Flickr keep the fidelity of original file. Again, I feel the potential problem you see are from focus issue. I am surprised we don't see much complain about S's focusing, it is one of biggest flaw as far as I can tell for the system. Not how many point but how consistent and reliable it can nail focus especially for ones print big. Thank you for the examples. These look quite good, and better than my 70mm images at f4 or 5.6, at least as far as I remember. I have to do some work, but I will see if I can dig up some examples of what I was experiencing and post them later. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted February 25, 2019 Share #83 Posted February 25, 2019 Stuart, I vaguely seem to remember a discussion you had about your 70mm over at GetDPI, some years ago, is that correct? I remember there was some talk about field curvature, mid zone dips, MTF charts and such. I seem to remember that you had a discussion with Leica about this or you send it in to Wetzlar or something? Anyway, what was the outcome at the time? All I can tell you is that I am still very happy with my six year old 70mm, but I don’t use it much for landscapes or any other subject past 10 meters and perhaps that makes a lot of difference. If you look at my photo a few pages back, I think it was at F2.8 and I have always liked the play and interplay of parts that are in and out of focus. Maybe there is some field curvature going on, I don’t know, but for this kind of focus distances, I think it helps with the 3-D illusion. It’s the kind of effect that is actually quite sought-after by cinematographers, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent M10 Posted February 25, 2019 Share #84 Posted February 25, 2019 Stephan Schulz: "Also, for the moment, we don't plan to add additional lenses to the Leica S lineup." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 25, 2019 Share #85 Posted February 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Agent M10 said: Stephan Schulz: "Also, for the moment, we don't plan to add additional lenses to the Leica S lineup." Err.. we’ve been discussing... Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted February 25, 2019 Share #86 Posted February 25, 2019 From the interview linked above: Stephan Schulz: "Our L-mount is 51.6 millimeter in diameter, so that's big enough for any design we could wish to design. This was checked by Peter Karbe and his team many, many years ago to make any lens you can dream about. It's big enough for the full-frame, and this L-mount was made for full frame. Surely at the time they must have considered squeezing a Leica Pro Format sensor in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 25, 2019 Share #87 Posted February 25, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 5 minutes ago, peterv said: From the interview linked above: Stephan Schulz: "Our L-mount is 51.6 millimeter in diameter, so that's big enough for any design we could wish to design. This was checked by Peter Karbe and his team many, many years ago to make any lens you can dream about. It's big enough for the full-frame, and this L-mount was made for full frame. Surely at the time they must have considered squeezing a Leica Pro Format sensor in there. Stephan made a similar comment about full frame in a 2018 Photokina interview, essentially taking a shot at Sony, et. al... https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-details-on-the-l-mount-alliance/ Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted February 25, 2019 Share #88 Posted February 25, 2019 Indeed, but I cannot believe that it was just a happy coincidence that E-mount turned out to be compatible with so called FF. At that time there was much internet chatter about the mount being big enough for 24x36 or not, but Sony of course knew. Now if you look at the L mount, same story, I think the 30x45 sensor will be a tight fit in the L-mount, just like FF on the Sony. Maybe it's not optimal for designing lenses to have such a narrow throat, but I can never believe that Peter Karbe did not consider the possibility of S lenses for an L mount 30x45 sensor camera with appropriate adapter, at the time of designing the L-mount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share #89 Posted February 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, peterv said: Indeed, but I cannot believe that it was just a happy coincidence that E-mount turned out to be compatible with so called FF. At that time there was much internet chatter about the mount being big enough for 24x36 or not, but Sony of course knew. Now if you look at the L mount, same story, I think the 30x45 sensor will be a tight fit in the L-mount, just like FF on the Sony. Maybe it's not optimal for designing lenses to have such a narrow throat, but I can never believe that Peter Karbe did not consider the possibility of S lenses for an L mount 30x45 sensor camera with appropriate adapter, at the time of designing the L-mount. Could very well be. As a continuation of this - and unfortunately for the SL-users among us - the existing SL-lenses does not appear to have sufficient image circle to cover a 30x45 sensor. If my memory serves me well, this can be shown for the SL24-90 if you strip off the in-camera corrections. I think @scott kirkpatrick played a little with the image circle of some of the SL-lenses; he may chime in on this when/if he sees this thread... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 25, 2019 Share #90 Posted February 25, 2019 I agree - the S should be the top line product, and Leica also takes a serious price. So please give us a reliable AF and a competitive resolution display. When I added a x1d to my "collection" of cameras and saw the high percentage of in focus images I realized that many of my out of focus S images were not user fault (what I assume before) but inconsistent AF. I still love how fast the S feels, I like the viewfinder and the rendering of the lenses. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted February 25, 2019 Share #91 Posted February 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, helged said: Could very well be. As a continuation of this - and unfortunately for the SL-users among us - the existing SL-lenses does not appear to have sufficient image circle to cover a 30x45 sensor. If my memory serves me well, this can be shown for the SL24-90 if you strip off the in-camera corrections. I think @scott kirkpatrick played a little with the image circle of some of the SL-lenses; he may chime in on this when/if he sees this thread... I don't doubt the image circle of the SL lenses do not cover 30x45. My point is that the L mount in itself seems big enough for an 30x45 sensor, if Leica would ever want to put such a sensor in an L-mount camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share #92 Posted February 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, peterv said: I don't doubt the image circle of the SL lenses do not cover 30x45. My point is that the L mount in itself seems big enough for an 30x45 sensor, if Leica would ever want to put such a sensor in an L-mount camera. Yes, we agree... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted February 25, 2019 Share #93 Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, peterv said: I don't doubt the image circle of the SL lenses do not cover 30x45. My point is that the L mount in itself seems big enough for an 30x45 sensor, if Leica would ever want to put such a sensor in an L-mount camera. No way SL can fit that sensor if Leica think E Mount is afterthought for FF. E flange distance is 18mm, Mount size is 46.1mm. Leica sL flange distance is 20mm and Mount open is 51.6mm. So first order math would be 20/18x46.1=51.2mm very close to Leica SL. I think there were interview for Nikon engineer about if Nikon Z Mount which is 16mm distance and 55mm opening will be good enough for MF. Their answer was not a consideration and the decision was solely based on FF performance. In comparison, X1D is 20mmX61mm, Fuji GFX has 65mm opening, S has about 66.5mm. Edited February 25, 2019 by ZHNL 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 25, 2019 Share #94 Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, helged said: Could very well be. As a continuation of this - and unfortunately for the SL-users among us - the existing SL-lenses does not appear to have sufficient image circle to cover a 30x45 sensor. If my memory serves me well, this can be shown for the SL24-90 if you strip off the in-camera corrections. I think @scott kirkpatrick played a little with the image circle of some of the SL-lenses; he may chime in on this when/if he sees this thread... I've used an S lens (120 Macro) on my SL, but I haven't tried to use an SL lens on an S (don't have an S). Although the L mount diameter is 51.6 mm, the diagonal of the S image chips is 54 mm. The L-mount opening is further restricted by the bar across the top for contacts and in the SL by a box structure that comes up an equal distance from the bottom. The total opening, top to bottom is not much more than 3 cm, so a 30x45 mm chip is not likely to fit. The best data on image circles comes from those who have attached M lenses to their X1D's. I don't have an X1D but I do have a Hasselblad 500C/M with a 48x36 mm CCD digital back but unfortunately the 74 mm register distance needed to clear its mirror sorta rules out this experiment. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted February 25, 2019 Share #95 Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, ZHNL said: No way SL can fit that sensor if Leica think E Mount is afterthought for FF. E flange distance is 18mm, Mount size is 46.1mm. Leica sL flange distance is 20mm and Mount open is 51.6mm. So first order math would be 20/18x46.1=51.2mm very close to Leica SL. I think there were interview for Nikon engineer about if Nikon Z Mount which is 16mm distance and 55mm opening will be good enough for MF. Their answer was not a consideration and the decision was solely based on FF performance. In comparison, X1D is 20mmX61mm, Fuji GFX has 65mm opening, S has about 66.5mm. I don't know if this was addressed at me or not, but I certainly cannot understand your reasoning and math. Nobody is suggesting that an S lens should physically fit into the L mount, if that’s what you think. Again, all I’m saying is that it seems like the L mount is capable of containing 30×45 sensor. Cheers, Peter 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted February 25, 2019 Share #96 Posted February 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said: ... Although the L mount diameter is 51.6 mm, the diagonal of the S image chips is 54 mm ... Correct, but the light from the S lens comes in at an angle and that would probably make up for the 54 - 51,6 = 2,4 devided by 2 (either side) is 1,2mm Google Sony E mount and look at the frame edges of the 24x36 sensor and see that corners seem cut off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted February 25, 2019 Share #97 Posted February 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, peterv said: I don't know if this was addressed at me or not, but I certainly cannot understand your reasoning and math. Nobody is suggesting that an S lens should physically fit into the L mount, if that’s what you think. Again, all I’m saying is that it seems like the L mount is capable of containing 30×45 sensor. Cheers, Peter Hi, Peter, I just want show that L mount is too small for S sensor. Obviously, we are not talking physically fit S lens on L mount. I understand your point. I used a first order to illustrate that if we have a similar lens design with the same aperture location to sensor distance. The light cone shape will be the same between E or L mount. In other word, A design fit in L mount will fit E mount as well in such a case that there is no much advantage for L over E. Obviously, this assumption is too easy to represent real world design and I am not a lens designer. With 51mm opening, L might have some advantage compare to E but consider Leica themselves think E mount is after thought from APSC and barely make it Full Frame, I doubt L will fit 30X45 sensor even if it is in slightly better shape than E. Sorry about the confusion. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted February 25, 2019 Share #98 Posted February 25, 2019 Hi Michael, thanks for trying to explain once more but you know, I only have two years of math and physics at middle school level, so what do I know 🙂 I’m just thinking out loud about the possibilities of shoving a 30x45 mm sensor in a camera with an L Mount. I’m not trying to advocate this should be done, as I’ve said a few pages back, I don’t mind the SLR design it all, it’s just wild speculation on my part 🙂 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 25, 2019 Share #99 Posted February 25, 2019 The S lenses go onto the L mount with Leica's adapter, which I use. It's rather large because the S lenses are designed to a much larger register distance, having to clear a mirror. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted February 25, 2019 Share #100 Posted February 25, 2019 Exactly, and all this space can be used for projecting an image from an S lens into the far corners of an L mount camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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