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helged

Forthcoming S-lens(es)...

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The bulk part of the S-lenses were introduced before 2013, so the question arises when - or if - will we see new S-lenses?

The current set of S-lenses are, by all means, optically fine, with a generally pleasent rendering. At the same time, the S-lenses lags the image quality seen in e.g. the SL (and many of the TL) lenses. The latter is caused by a combination of optics and in-camera corrections (some are critical to the software corrections - I dont care as long as the image quality is top...). 

Anyway - any views on forthcoming S-lenses? With a mirrorless MF Leica in the future, if materialised, new MF lenses will  obviously come. But what about the current S-system - including the situation now with the S3 coming? 

Edited by helged

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If there aren’t more lenses, I would agree with others who think the S system (as we know it) is dead, and the S3 is essentially a sensor upgrade option for current S system owners.  I’ll only be encouraged about Leica’s commitment to the current system if new or improved lenses are introduced.  The S zoom, in particular, is not on a par with the SL zooms (whether due to optics or software corrections), not to mention lack of OIS.  The AF motor issue, and associated frustrations with initial servicing, also did not instill confidence.

In another forum thread, David Farkas expressed confidence regarding new S lenses, especially longer focal lengths.  One small problem ... that was in 2011.

Jeff

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I think that the only S Leica lens we can expect is the 55mm. At least it’s present in the Thalia line of Alexa 65 lenses 

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8 hours ago, Jeff S said:

.

In another forum thread, David Farkas expressed confidence regarding new S lenses, especially longer focal lengths.  One small problem ... that was in 2011.

Jeff

Maybe time to ask him again :) 

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A 55mm f2 to 2.5, 1.4x teleconverter or a new 70mm would also be nice, but I am not holding my breath! I am surprised you guys are not satisfied with the S lenses though...the only ones that I have found in any way lacking are the 70mm and 30-90. The 70mm is still a very good lens, just not quite as astonishing as the rest, while the 30-90 is great in every way except resolution in the field at focal lengths 65mm and up, where unfortunately it really is somewhat crippled (at least for my uses).

 

I should also say that the only L lens I have used was the 23mm TL lens, which is not even in the same realm of the M lenses, let alone the S lenses.

Edited by Stuart Richardson

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I agree, I would have liked the 100/2 to have a shutter, wide T/S lens also perhaps a slower/smaller slightly wide lens.  Longer lenses are covered by Hasselblad AF and Mamiya or Pentax 67 MF. 

john

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14 hours ago, Jeff S said:

In another forum thread, David Farkas expressed confidence regarding new S lenses, especially longer focal lengths.  One small problem ... that was in 2011.

We got several new S lenses since then: 100, 120 TS, 24. We did not get a 350 or anything longer than the 180.

It goes to show that dealers aren't told everything.

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I remain optimistic that one or more new lenses will soon debut...

If no further lenses are forthcoming, I would not take that a sign that Leica is abandoning the S, just that it is mature and that the telephotos  being supplied by Hassy and others.... The market may therefore be saturated and development of a Leica telephoto may make no economic sense.

The 30-90 does  have its problems at >70 mm but I have surmounted that by cropping the less than ideal border.

I realize that it is not perfect but it is a practical solution. 

Albert 😏

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6 hours ago, Photon42 said:

Maybe time to ask him again :) 

After playing a little with the Hasselblad HC 300mm f4.5, I will say that this is a longish af lens alternative at reasonable cost. By adding the HC 1.7x converter you lose AF and get fixed aperture. Not ideal, but better than nothing...

Edited by helged

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1 hour ago, John McMaster said:

I agree, I would have liked the 100/2 to have a shutter, wide T/S lens also perhaps a slower/smaller slightly wide lens.  Longer lenses are covered by Hasselblad AF and Mamiya or Pentax 67 MF. 

john

Regarding Pentax 67 MF - have you or anyone else - experience with the Pentax 67 400mm f4? I have one, but it is extremely prone to flare on the S. This holdes for the lens itself, as well as when used with the Pentax 2x converter. Sad, as the lens is quite sharp...

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1 minute ago, John McMaster said:

I use the Mamiya 645 300/2.8 APO sometimes with the 2x convertor, not had those issues.

john

Yes - the Mamiya 645 300mm f2.8 works fine on the S - I got hold of one lens not that long ago... When stopped down one step, the lens and the lens + the 2x extender deliver fine results on the S. So this is a go-option in combination of live view focus on the S... 

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1 hour ago, BernardC said:

We got several new S lenses since then: 100, 120 TS, 24. We did not get a 350 or anything longer than the 180.

It goes to show that dealers aren't told everything.

David knew about those well before release, and there was plenty of additional discussion here. The comment I referred to related specifically to longer lenses...

The point is that posts brimming with confidence and optimism have morphed into silence for years now.

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S

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19 hours ago, Jeff S said:

n another forum thread, David Farkas expressed confidence regarding new S lenses, especially longer focal lengths.

Jeff, it's his job to express confidence and sell the product. On the other hand, while I have never met David Farkas or his people, he sounds like a very decent and knowledgeable person and I am sure that he had no intention to mislead the Leica-S photographers. Obviously, he just shared the info he got at Leica in 2011. 

Yevgeny

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24 minutes ago, ynp said:

Jeff, it's his job to express confidence and sell the product. On the other hand, while I have never met David Farkas or his people, he sounds like a very decent and knowledgeable person and I am sure that he had no intention to mislead the Leica-S photographers. Obviously, he just shared the info he got at Leica in 2011. 

Yevgeny

You misunderstood my comment.  I think very highly of David and trust his judgment and professionalism. He was speaking the truth as he felt it at the time.  It’s Leica I don’t trust.  See the R system.  

I cited David’s comment only to show how optimistic we all were about the S system.  But that was before mirrorless became the rage, MPs exploded, and MF competition and price points changed dramatically with Pentax, then Fuji and Hasselblad.  And before the S lens AF debacle was well known.

Times have changed. Now we’ll see how that affects the S system.  I continue to believe that more lenses is a good sign; and no new lenses is not just a sign of ‘maturity’ as Albert spins it.

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S

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Seems to me this thread is trying to answer two different questions:

1 - Will there be any new S lenses coming any time soon?
My answer: what new S lenses? There are quite a lot of options already and the same people keep hammering the same question for a few - relatively niche - lenses. During the past years I have read people, on this board and others, asking for pancake design 35mm equivalent lenses, wide angle tilt/shifts for architecture and landscape photographers as well as long lenses like a 350mm and tele converters. These lenses have up till now not materialised, although on this board and others people have been asking for them for years.

I agree it would be nice if we could have a few more lenses for the S system that are quite useful for some people, but how many of them would Leica sell? If I’m not mistaken there are eight different S lenses for our system at this time, not counting double the central shutter options. Then there are literally dozens of different lenses from different systems, quite a lot of those even with auto aperture and auto focus.

I wish my dry cabinet was a candy store from which I could just pick any of all these lenses available for the S system. We’re in an extremely luxury position, really. Especially if you look at what and how the world’s top cinematographers can choose from for their top-of-the-line Alexa65 cameras, a camera that more or less has about the same sensor size.

https://www.arri.com/en/camera-systems/cine-lenses/signature-prime-lenses


I’m just saying, we already have very many good and interesting options to choose from, optics-wise. I can understand people wanting tilt/shift wide-angle and long lenses and smallish reportage lenses and what have you, but I think the lens arsenal for the S system is quite elaborate and versatile already.

Now for the second question which I think this thread is also about:

2 - Is the sky falling for the S system because there have not been any new lenses for some years?
My answer: I don’t think so. The S system is much more mature now than it was 10 years ago. Personally I am quite convinced that the L Mount is big enough to accommodate a 30×45 mm sensor, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they will bring such a mirrorless camera to market in one or two years and that the S3 is just a stopgap until they’re ready to introduce such a camera, an adapter and smaller lenses, specifically designed for mirrorless ‘medium format’. 

It may very well be they will just continue producing single lens reflex cameras like our S is today. Heck, they have kept their rangefinders very much alive, why not SLR’s? Leica have invested quite a lot of money already in the design of the S system, 10 years ago. Why not keep it going? I’ve had many different cameras with an electronic viewfinder and I say give me a single lens reflex with the internal optics of the S any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Anyway, during the past few years, Leica have been very busy trying to build up different systems, amongst and besides M and S, the L Mount. Maybe they will bring a few more S lenses and or adapters in due time, maybe they won’t. But I certainly don’t feel like the sky is falling for me. On the contrary, at the moment I am in the process of selling all my other not so useful photographic equipment to see if I can buy a 007 or maybe, if Leica would take my armchair CEO advice, make the price of the S3 €10,000 so that me, myself and I and other people like us LUF members can enjoy all the glass already available to the S system with a little higher (64 MP) resolution, which I’m sure won’t be a problem for the outstanding lenses we already can choose from today.

Cheers, Peter

 

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Yes, make a S3 less than $15000, offer free or charge minimal fee replace motor incase of lens fail due to design fault regardless of years. In the mean time, improve the AF reliability and accuracy.

All complain will vanish.

Given S’s niche OVF and ergonomics, Leica S will be thrived. 

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2 hours ago, peterv said:

 

2 - Is the sky falling for the S system because there have not been any new lenses for some years?


 

If the S system fails, one can debate numerous possible reasons, all of which have been discussed here ad nauseam.  Of course Leica’s bottom line is what matters, and we have no insights into that, but the variables potentially negatively affecting that result might include pricing, reliability, increased competition, changing market dynamics (including mirrorless), servicing and communication issues, etc. If the current S system fails, the lack of new or improved lenses likely won’t be the cause; rather, it will more likely be the effect.  I don’t currently own the S, so I don’t have a vested interest in new lens intros (better zoom options might however entice), but I always hope Leica grows and prospers. 

The Leica M system has arguably had a fully mature array of lenses for a long time. But Leica keeps increasing and tweaking the line (sometimes for film vs digital needs, but not exclusively). These lenses seem to sell regardless the price, despite the fact that each focal length has multiple options already in existence. Of course the S system is clearly not the M, and the profit equations and product histories are apples and oranges, but each has its own dedicated mount, unlike the L mount, which is shared across product lines (even before the alliance).  So it just seems to me that lack of new developments regarding native S mount lenses isn’t a good signal for the S as currently configured. That doesn’t mean the sky is falling... but it might seem rather cloudy.

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S

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