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LocalHero1953

'Hopelist' for SL2

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It's too late to offer a wishlist for the SL2, but having seen what Panasonic has produced, I hope Leica focuses more on what makes it easy to take great photos, and does not go down the road of all-you-can-eat technology for the sake of the techie reviewer's headlines. My 'hopelist':

- Keep to 24Mp, but, as a consequence, with much better DR and low light performance. I don't want to have to replace my PC to get the image processing power, or to buy/rent extra storage, or to upgrade my broadband connection. Nobody who looks at and appreciates my photos would notice the extra pixels.

- Perhaps a separate version with 47Mp for those who have an audience of one (themselves) for their images, and look at them at pixel level; or for those whose clients demand it as a commercial entry ticket. (I don't like using more pixels to facilitate big cropping - it usually shows up as poor composition and unnatural perspective).

- Built in Arca-Swiss plate grip points, and an extra strap fitting at the bottom of the body on the RHS. At the moment I need a Arca-Swiss plate permanently fitted to my SL to which I attach a handstrap.

- Learn the lesson of the L-mount alliance and apply it to flash: buy into a system by Profoto or Canon/Nikon. Leica doesn't do flash systems well, so use someone else's.

- The same EVF resolution, but better performance in low light (same argument as sensor megapixels: I don't need more EVF pixels, but I do want it to perform better).

- Far better (reliable, fast) wireless performance for connectivity with the Fotos app, Image Shuttle, tethering and third party networks.

- Better AF performance, especially in low light and in AFc/tracking/face recognition modes.

- Smaller, lighter body, but not much so, else it would be unbalanced with the SL lenses. And I buy into the notion (till proved wrong) that the best AF lenses are going to be big.

- No worse battery performance: this is another reason for not wanting more pixels in the sensor or EVF.

- No tilt screen (tilt EVF housing would be nice if it could be designed nicely)

- I don't need IBIS, but would accept it if it meant no bigger (and didn't stop the body being smaller)

I could think of lots of firmware improvements, but perhaps that's for another thread.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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I just hope Leica gives us an expected availability date for the SL2 even if they don't give much else away.

It's not their way but I hope that they make an exception this time around. 🤞

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vor einer Stunde schrieb LocalHero1953:

It's too late to offer a wishlist for the SL2, but having seen what Panasonic has produced, I hope Leica focuses more on what makes it easy to take great photos, and does not go down the road of all-you-can-eat technology for the sake of the techie reviewer's headlines. My 'hopelist':

- Keep to 24Mp, but, as a consequence, with much better DR and low light performance. I don't want to have to replace my PC to get the image processing power, or to buy/rent extra storage, or to upgrade my broadband connection. Nobody who looks at and appreciates my photos would notice the extra pixels.

YES

- Perhaps a separate version with 47Mp for those who have an audience of one (themselves) for their images, and look at them at pixel level; or for those whose clients demand it as a commercial entry ticket. (I don't like using more pixels to facilitate big cropping - it usually shows up as poor composition and unnatural perspective).
 YES, but in this case, take a Leica S3.

- Built in Arca-Swiss plate grip points, and an extra strap fitting at the bottom of the body on the RHS. At the moment I need a Arca-Swiss plate permanently fitted to my SL to which I attach a handstrap.

WHY NOT

- Learn the lesson of the L-mount alliance and apply it to flash: buy into a system by Profoto or Canon/Nikon. Leica doesn't do flash systems well, so use someone else's.

WHY NOT

- The same EVF resolution, but better performance in low light (same argument as sensor megapixels: I don't need more EVF pixels, but I do want it to perform better).

YES

- Far better (reliable, fast) wireless performance for connectivity with the Fotos app, Image Shuttle, tethering and third party networks.

YES

- Better AF performance, especially in low light and in AFc/tracking/face recognition modes.

YES

- Smaller, lighter body, but not much so, else it would be unbalanced with the SL lenses. And I buy into the notion (till proved wrong) that the best AF lenses are going to be big.

NOT NECCESSARY, I LIK THE Leica R3 look

- No worse battery performance: this is another reason for not wanting more pixels in the sensor or EVF.

YES

- No tilt screen (tilt EVF housing would be nice if it could be designed nicely)

YES

- I don't need IBIS, but would accept it if it meant no bigger (and didn't stop the body being smaller)

DO NOT KNOW, what it means,...

I could think of lots of firmware improvements, but perhaps that's for another thread.

May be

Hi

 

Thanks for your message. In general I agree with you and your vision. My reply In your texte

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vor einer Stunde schrieb LocalHero1953:

It's too late to offer a wishlist for the SL2, but having seen what Panasonic has produced, I hope Leica focuses more on what makes it easy to take great photos, and does not go down the road of all-you-can-eat technology for the sake of the techie reviewer's headlines. My 'hopelist':

- Keep to 24Mp, but, as a consequence, with much better DR and low light performance. I don't want to have to replace my PC to get the image processing power, or to buy/rent extra storage, or to upgrade my broadband connection. Nobody who looks at and appreciates my photos would notice the extra pixels.

+1

- Perhaps a separate version with 47Mp for those who have an audience of one (themselves) for their images, and look at them at pixel level; or for those whose clients demand it as a commercial entry ticket. (I don't like using more pixels to facilitate big cropping - it usually shows up as poor composition and unnatural perspective).

0

- Built in Arca-Swiss plate grip points, and an extra strap fitting at the bottom of the body on the RHS. At the moment I need a Arca-Swiss plate permanently fitted to my SL to which I attach a handstrap.

+2

- Learn the lesson of the L-mount alliance and apply it to flash: buy into a system by Profoto or Canon/Nikon. Leica doesn't do flash systems well, so use someone else's.

no built-in flash

- The same EVF resolution, but better performance in low light (same argument as sensor megapixels: I don't need more EVF pixels, but I do want it to perform better).

+1

- Far better (reliable, fast) wireless performance for connectivity with the Fotos app, Image Shuttle, tethering and third party networks.

good wireless performance

- Better AF performance, especially in low light and in AFc/tracking/face recognition modes.

0

- Smaller, lighter body, but not much so, else it would be unbalanced with the SL lenses. And I buy into the notion (till proved wrong) that the best AF lenses are going to be big.

+2, perhaps smaller SL lenses

- No worse battery performance: this is another reason for not wanting more pixels in the sensor or EVF.

+1

- No tilt screen (tilt EVF housing would be nice if it could be designed nicely)

either tilt screen or tilt EVF

- I don't need IBIS, but would accept it if it meant no bigger (and didn't stop the body being smaller)

no ibis  = no more noise, no noise reducing firmware

 

 

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vor einer Stunde schrieb jplomley:

I'm fine with the SL as it is. What I want Leica to do for the SL is get those Summicron primes to the market asap. The wait has been far too long.

I agree!!! Tomorrow I'll travel to Wetzlar hoping to have some news concerning the upcoming? Summicron-sl...

 

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53 minutes ago, SiggiGun said:

I agree!!! Tomorrow I'll travel to Wetzlar hoping to have some news concerning the upcoming? Summicron-sl...

 

Ask them when the SL2 will be out!

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41 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I should have added to my hopelist:

- Optional long exposure noise reduction (LENR)

(Hope springs eternal in the human breast etc)

+1. 

(methinks that the SL2 will have a MP count on par with the others - just prepare for it...)

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vor 47 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

Ask them when the SL2 will be out!

Well, I'll but,...

I think, but it's only speculation or fake ideas. Differents scenarios:

  • Camera is delayed due to Panasonic echo, wait for market feedback
  • Camera presentation is synchronized with Summicron-SL 35 and 50mm presentation and market introduction
  • Camera is delayed due to the fact that senor technology is progressing very fast and it makes less or no sens to have S3 and SL2 in the market. As a result, a new system, full frame 24x36 based, is introduced with a S3 look and SL2 technology
  • Camera introduction was planned for Photokina May 2019, but this show was canceled and now It will be presented in 2020.
  • ?

Will see on February 15th. My feeling is still option 2 in May 🙂

 

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$0.02  I would love to have a

  • Improved Dynamic Range
  • Improved High ISO capability
  • More open API for mobile application development
  • More MP would be nice

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More megapixels will be beneficial to make justice of the lenses resolving power. In my opinion, the only areas where a real upgrade is necessary are the following:

  • AFC dynamic tracking = It would be great to have PDAF, "glue to the eyes" focusing or proper face detection. A big limit of the current SL system is the tracking acquisition time, which can be painfully slow;
  • Flash compatibility = Opening the flash protocol to 3rd party professional systems such as Profoto, Broncolor, Elinchrome, etc..., for a full and dedicated support;

By fixing the above, Leica could truly market the SL a proper professional camera. 

Macro and longer telephotos may not come from Leica, but Sigma could probably fix the need for those, with the open L-mount alliance

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb LocalHero1953:

It's too late to offer a wishlist for the SL2, but having seen what Panasonic has produced, I hope Leica focuses more on what makes it easy to take great photos, and does not go down the road of all-you-can-eat technology for the sake of the techie reviewer's headlines. My 'hopelist':

- Keep to 24Mp, but, as a consequence, with much better DR and low light performance. I don't want to have to replace my PC to get the image processing power, or to buy/rent extra storage, or to upgrade my broadband connection. Nobody who looks at and appreciates my photos would notice the extra pixels. Oh no, need more pixel to please customers

- Perhaps a separate version with 47Mp for those who have an audience of one (themselves) for their images, and look at them at pixel level; or for those whose clients demand it as a commercial entry ticket. (I don't like using more pixels to facilitate big cropping - it usually shows up as poor composition and unnatural perspective). No, i have to crop often and use often only parts of image for composing new images...

- Built in Arca-Swiss plate grip points, and an extra strap fitting at the bottom of the body on the RHS. At the moment I need a Arca-Swiss plate permanently fitted to my SL to which I attach a handstrap. I am OK with

- Learn the lesson of the L-mount alliance and apply it to flash: buy into a system by Profoto or Canon/Nikon. Leica doesn't do flash systems well, so use someone else's. Yes OK

- The same EVF resolution, but better performance in low light (same argument as sensor megapixels: I don't need more EVF pixels, but I do want it to perform better). EVF is OK

- Far better (reliable, fast) wireless performance for connectivity with the Fotos app, Image Shuttle, tethering and third party networks. i do not care

- Better AF performance, especially in low light and in AFc/tracking/face recognition modes. i do not care. need no fast AF

- Smaller, lighter body, but not much so, else it would be unbalanced with the SL lenses. And I buy into the notion (till proved wrong) that the best AF lenses are going to be big. Lighter is OK but never smaller. Sony size is too tiny

- No worse battery performance: this is another reason for not wanting more pixels in the sensor or EVF.  i do not care always one or two extra batteries in pocket

- No tilt screen (tilt EVF housing would be nice if it could be designed nicely) Tilt screen is a MUST have for me because of often low shooting position in kneelevel

- I don't need IBIS, but would accept it if it meant no bigger (and didn't stop the body being smaller) Yes OK

I could think of lots of firmware improvements, but perhaps that's for another thread. Yes OK

It is a good example that there will never be a camera that everybody finds perfect 😉

Edited by verwackelt

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Ahhh......the Leica thread which is a version of the Brexit wish-list  ...... no doubt including Magical Thinking and Unicorns ..... :rolleyes:

Leica will produce an SL2 that fits with the Leica ethos and with improvements designed to retain and possibly increase market share. 

I'm afraid their priorities are unlikely to coincide with the wishes of the 'I really like like Leica ..... but if only they would....' group of users. 

There will probably be enough to consider upgrading ..... but I expect a long list of omissions that will disappoint me and many others..... although Paul seems easily pleased .... :P

It's heartening though that the S3 is about to appear with 64mpx which indicates that they at least have a new processor capable of crunching the pixels.

I hope I will be pleasantly surprised ..... and if not I can at least painlessly attach my SL lenses to a Panasonic .....

 

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12 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

Ahhh......the Leica thread which is a version of the Brexit wish-list  ...... no doubt including Magical Thinking and Unicorns ..... :rolleyes:

Leica will produce an SL2 that fits with the Leica ethos and with improvements designed to retain and possibly increase market share. 

I'm afraid their priorities are unlikely to coincide with the wishes of the 'I really like like Leica ..... but if only they would....' group of users. 

There will probably be enough to consider upgrading ..... but I expect a long list of omissions that will disappoint me and many others..... although Paul seems easily pleased .... :P

It's heartening though that the S3 is about to appear with 64mpx which indicates that they at least have a new processor capable of crunching the pixels.

I hope I will be pleasantly surprised ..... and if not I can at least painlessly attach my SL lenses to a Panasonic .....

 

The S3 uses the Maestro II processor of the S007, so no apparent update regarding number crunching from the S-system (https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-the-leica-s3/).

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1 minute ago, helged said:

The S3 uses the Maestro II processor of the S007, so no apparent update regarding number crunching from the S-system (https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-the-leica-s3/).

That does concern me ....... I doubt if it would handle double the pixels, write to a card and push the image onto an LCD and high res EVF ..... plus fast AF.

I can only assume they will steal the Panasonic processing know-how...... otherwise the SL2 will be a rather puny upgrade. 

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3 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

That does concern me ....... I doubt if it would handle double the pixels, write to a card and push the image onto an LCD and high res EVF ..... plus fast AF.

I can only assume they will steal the Panasonic processing know-how...... otherwise the SL2 will be a rather puny upgrade. 

Yes, it could be that we will see a divergence between the S and SL systems starting with the S3/SL2. If so, the L-partnership (Panasonic) may provide the needed processing power for the SL-line, whereas the Maestro II processor appears to be (just) sufficient for the S3; reducing the shooting rate from 3.5 to 3 fps between S007 and S3.

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I love everything about SL except the auto focus, sometimes i missed my best shot (Leica SL 50 summilux).

I hope the SL2 come with the faster auto focus and the new variety lenses. 

improve low light situation, auto white balance accuracy, and maybe the size of SL (lighter, thinner).

 

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14 hours ago, helged said:

Yes, it could be that we will see a divergence between the S and SL systems starting with the S3/SL2. If so, the L-partnership (Panasonic) may provide the needed processing power for the SL-line, whereas the Maestro II processor appears to be (just) sufficient for the S3; reducing the shooting rate from 3.5 to 3 fps between S007 and S3.

I suspect that the production volume expected for the S3 did not justify rushing-out a new processor. We may see a new Maestro for the next Q, SL, M, etc.

It could even be that the processor is not the problem. As you say, the camera only went down 0.5 fps when doubling the data throughput. I would not be surprised if something else was throttling performance, like the CF card interface.

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