Leica S3 announced @ photokina

[John McMaster]

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But that is because you have the 100MP Hasselblad, for those of us who do not want two systems the higher pixel count of the S3 may make the difference.

john

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, John McMaster said:

But that is because you have the 100MP Hasselblad, for those of us who do not want two systems the higher pixel count of the S3 may make the difference.

john

Especially seeing as you have most of the S lenses.

Neil

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[John McMaster]

Exactly, just 30mm and 100mm to go....

john

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, John McMaster said:

Exactly, just 30mm and 100mm to go....

john

I got a nice 30mm if your interested

Neil

[John McMaster]

More interested in the 100mm 😉  You would not like the low offer I might make....

john

[mgrayson3]

Played with one today. Friggin awesome. Perfect color at ISO 1600. ISO 50000 looks like 1600 on the 007. Still, it’s the transition to OOF - the lenses - that are most striking  

Matt

 

[albireo_double]

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When will they release sample images? 

[mgrayson3]

No idea. I’m not sure anyone knows.

[peterv]

21 hours ago, albireo_double said:

When will they release sample images? 

I guess the answer is, in due time.

I think it was in 2014 when David Farkas had shots from the 007 on his blog quite soon after Photokina, perhaps this time they're not as close to the final product as four years ago.

 

When I'm out and about taking pictures with my S2-P I can't help wondering and mesmerising about what 64 MP would bring to table. When I get home and start processing, I zoom into my landscapes made with the 120mm and I'm just amazed by the acuity and sharpness it gives. I can only dream of what the files from an S3 are going to look like.

 

Too bad I won't be able to afford it.

[mgrayson3]

I was going to make the "1.3x linear resolution isn't a big deal and will be invisible in almost any print" argument, but your landscapes have a lot of fine, distant detail, and if anything will benefit from the pixels, it's that. I'd try sizing some down by a 1.3x factor and printing large to see if there really is a difference. I couldn't see it on my building shots, but the fine detail there is concrete or brick.

Best,

Matt

[helged]

Interesting times. Being a hobby-photographer and coming from FF,  having entered the S-system lately (S006 + 5 lenses), there are several issues to ponder about... 

How will the S3 sensor size, colours and 16 bit files stand out compared to the L-system? (to wait for the reviews, or to test-shoot, guess...) 

Will S3 be the last body in the OVF-line as we know it (possibly implying reduced second-hand vale)?

A big plus for the high iso-performance, but somewhat dissapointing with no update to the Maestro processor, limited buffer capacity and 'only' 3 fps. 

Will there be new S-lenses made for the existing S-body? Or will Leica wait until a mirror-less S might be introduced in some (2+) year from now? 

Will S3 include in-body corrections of the images similar to the SL, with individual corrections of the colour channels? (I would think so; there are almost no optical artifacts with the SL-lenses, some with the S-lenses, but it is hard to know what's coming from the optics vs software correction).

Although excellent S-optics, the SL primes (and zooms) are just fabulous. With higher resolution FF sensors, new lenses, new bodies from Leica, Panasonic and Sigma at price levels well below that of the S3, many consideration are on the table.

[mgrayson3]

Without knowing answers to your questions, I did discuss future bodies with John Kreidler, and we agreed on the two main points: a mirrorless S would require an adapter, and that's never ideal (a new lens line is off the table), and mirrorless cameras have a big heat dispersal problem, and the speed of the S would suffer. Of course, technology moves on and renders old problems irrelevant, but that's the current feeling at Leica.

As for "are the lenses up to it?" The answer is yes. Of course, it matters what you think a lens's main job is. If you want wall-to-wall tech cam resolution, you'll be disappointed with the corners of *some* of the lenses. If you want razor sharp almost everywhere with beautiful OOF rendering and color, they'll suffice for a few more sensor generations. The TL and SL lenses have a very similar look. The S is different - I'll post my test of very similar lenses on each.

My opinions,

Matt

[Agent M10]

4 hours ago, helged said:

Although excellent S-optics, the SL primes (and zooms) are just fabulous. With higher resolution FF sensors, new lenses, new bodies from Leica, Panasonic and Sigma at price levels well below that of the S3, many consideration are on the table.

Interesting times? I’ve had the 007 for a couple of years and just bought into the SL. I’m looking at both systems, but it seems at this point that the overall advantages fall to FF. You have the new primes which are faster which gives you much more freedom. The S benefits from 16-bit color and sensor size, but I’m not sure that larger size makes that much of a difference. If Leica gave the SL2 35MP+ and 16-bit  color, I’d probably sell off the 007. Mirrorless seems to be the future.

[Agent M10]

4 hours ago, helged said:

Although excellent S-optics, the SL primes (and zooms) are just fabulous. With higher resolution FF sensors, new lenses, new bodies from Leica, Panasonic and Sigma at price levels well below that of the S3, many consideration are on the table.

Interesting times? Yes, they are. I’ve had the 007 for a couple of years and just bought into the SL. I’m looking at both systems, but it seems at this point that the overall advantages fall to FF. You have the new primes which benefit from new innovations and which are faster, giving  you much more freedom. The S benefits from 16-bit color and sensor size, but I’m not sure that the larger size makes translates it much of a difference, especially with the new Summicrons. If Leica gave the SL2 35MP+ and 16-bit  color, I’d probably sell off the 007. Mirrorless is the future.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Agent M10

[mgrayson3]

I posted a bunch of comparison shots, but they don't really matter. All these choices are excellent, and everyone should just use what they want.

--Matt

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by mgrayson3

[ZHNL]

For anybody value convenience and speed, S system is the wrong choice.

This is still flagship system in term of IQ in Leica line up, no question about it.  

OVF camera actually will be a selling point for Leica in the future. With more and more market shift to MILC, the niche service will fit Leica business type better. They have SL cover the MILC section to better serve wide range of audience. 

The fact Leica need not put heavy R&D into bell and whistle feature is a good news for me that the system can survive longer with minimal invest to easy keep it in the line long term. They have been focused on IQ which I personally feel it is a right path for the system to thrive. 

[hoppyman]

5 hours ago, mgrayson3 said:

Without knowing answers to your questions, I did discuss future bodies with John Kreidler, and we agreed on the two main points: a mirrorless S would require an adapter, and that's never ideal (a new lens line is off the table), and mirrorless cameras have a big heat dispersal problem, and the speed of the S would suffer. Of course, technology moves on and renders old problems irrelevant, but that's the current feeling at Leica.

As for "are the lenses up to it?" The answer is yes. Of course, it matters what you think a lens's main job is. If you want wall-to-wall tech cam resolution, you'll be disappointed with the corners of *some* of the lenses. If you want razor sharp almost everywhere with beautiful OOF rendering and color, they'll suffice for a few more sensor generations. The TL and SL lenses have a very similar look. The S is different - I'll post my test of very similar lenses on each.

My opinions,

Matt

Matt, to continue that discussion, I would like to add some comment/opinion from here.

Why would a mirrorless S require an adapter? Do you mean if a new body was made more compact rather than continuing the current form? For me the ergonomics of the current body are excellent and it’s much more comfortable to use in extended sessions than the SL for example. I agree that a new lens range seems impractical/unlikely given the assumed proportion of Leicas market filled by the S.

My speculation is that an SL2 might be more likely than a smaller S body. For the bulk of my shooting, I find the large optical finder of the S superb, while the single AF point a limitation. I experimented with the optional screen too but effectively it’s the same focus recompose limitation and with the precise location of the crosshairs no longer indicated. For me the screens and Liveview in the S are not suffuIciently precise for MF  ( coming from M RF cameras)

regarding heat dispersal, I haven’t observed any issue with the SL in rapid sequences. I shoot much more with the S however. I don’t use the continuous mode but single shots perhaps 2 -3 seconds apart in groups of maybe 20 shots, say 1000 plus over 3 hours typically (dancing and the like)

cant comment on testing performance in corners or with lenses other than the 70 and 120. I do recall Peter Karbe some time ago saying that the  lenses could outresolve the next generation of sensors too.

 

[helged]

Quite some positive comments here https://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/65005-leica-s3-35sl.html

[mgrayson3]

The SL2 will have more resolution, but not a LOT more, and its improvements will be heavily video. Of course, its lenses are good for much higher resolution sensors. I get Moire on the TL2 sensor using SL zooms wide open!, and that pixel size corresponds to a 54MP FF sensor.

Matt

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[Jeff S]

And according to Dr. Kaufmann, the SL2 will have a more ‘elegant’ body shape than the ‘more brutal’ SL.

Jeff