New Panasonic Full Frame with SL Mount?

[MediaFotografie]

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https://l-mount.com/ changed - it will be up at 12 pm

Edited September 25, 2018 by mediafotografie

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jaapv]

It also depends of course on the camera being able to make the correct internal digital corrections for distortion, vignetting, etc. As we all know, the resulting high image quality from S and L lenses results from a balance of optical design and in-camera digital correction. Presumably, the collaboration (partnership or whatever it is) will involve the sharing of this data so that an SL lens can be used on a Pansonic body without loss of quality.

Yes, but it would not make sense to share a mount without sharing this protocol.

[DanielJr]

So in the future can have sigma sensor with leica optics oh what time to be alive. Well Now going to buy leica lens with sigma cameras or pansonic bodies. Now will fully invest into the L mount. Also if possible if I can use S lens on sigma and panasonic bodies too. Yeah Leica has bought them a customer. Will start to sell all my cameras to invest L mount future.

[Jon Warwick]

So in the future can have sigma sensor with leica optics oh what time to be alive.

A foveon sensor with SL lens would potentially be staggeringly good. Assuming it’s ever created! I used to own a Sigma DP Merrill. I didn’t like the Sigma software to process the raw files, but the colour depth and tonal rendering was in a very different league to anything I’ve experienced from CMOS sensors. Foveon sensor produced layer on layer of colour depth that was beautiful, like looking at a E6 slide on a light box.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Jon Warwick

[wattsy]

 I used to own a Sigma DP Merrill.

 

 

Yes, I had one of those as well. It was like a digital equivalent of my Leica 0-serie – at least in usability and convenience terms. In fact, I think the null camera was quicker to use.

[jonatdonuts]

Was hoping for a few APSC L mount lens announcements but no cigar. And, after Panasonic's fantastic presentation with the help of one of the best photojournalists in the world, it's clear from their product direction they won't be chipping into the CL and TL line.

 

If Leica (or Sigma) could release the 23mm 1.4 already plsssssssssssssss.

[Martin B]

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If the new Panasonic MLC FF cameras use a sensor glass cover thickness optimized for SL and also M-lenses, we have a big winner. This is what I always hoped for but didn't think it would happen until now - smart move of Leica! Finally a more affordable MLC camera with high res sensor AND hopefully working with M glass. Winner for me! Oh, yes, I am glad I didn't vest into a SL camera earlier.

[jonoslack]

If the new Panasonic MLC FF cameras use a sensor glass cover thickness optimized for SL and also M-lenses, we have a big winner. This is what I always hoped for but didn't think it would happen until now - smart move of Leica! Finally a more affordable MLC camera with high res sensor AND hopefully working with M glass. Winner for me! Oh, yes, I am glad I didn't vest into a SL camera earlier.

I know nothing of Panasonic Martin, but I think this is extremely unlikely - there are plenty of advantages of thicker sensor glass cover and why would Panasonic give those up so you can use someone else’s lenses? I don’t think so!

 

The SL2 when it comes - that is a different matter!

[lx1713]

I know nothing of Panasonic Martin, but I think this is extremely unlikely - there are plenty of advantages of thicker sensor glass cover and why would Panasonic give those up so you can use someone else’s lenses? I don’t think so!

 

The SL2 when it comes - that is a different matter!

 

I didn't think about that but it does makes sense.

[Martin B]

I know nothing of Panasonic Martin, but I think this is extremely unlikely - there are plenty of advantages of thicker sensor glass cover and why would Panasonic give those up so you can use someone else’s lenses? I don’t think so!

 

The SL2 when it comes - that is a different matter!

 

Doesn't the SL camera already use a thinner sensor glass cover than other MLC cameras which use DSLR lens designs (like from Sony or now from Nikon and Canon, too)? Also M lenses supposedly work mostly very well on existing SL cameras - so if the new Panasonic cameras are optimized for SL lens usage, it automatically would allow good usage of M lenses too with a cheap L-M adapter. 

 

I believe with the introduction of the future Panasonic FF MLC cameras in L mount, the Leica SL line is pretty much dead. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Martin B

[bags27]

Did I hear at 18:30 Leica whiff on the question of a SL 2 or any future mutual development?

 

It's somewhat strange that Leica isn't giving any details of a future L-mount camera. I'm wondering whether this consortium is at least somewhat a rather hasty reaction to the fact that Blackstone is trying to sell its 45% share of Leica, and therefore the company is striving for a higher valuation. NiCanon has just come out with their own mirrorless cameras and Nikon made a big splash with its new, larger mount. Leica is responding by extolling the forward-virtues of its own mount as a value added for purchase by Panasonic camera users. Conversely, it's trying to lift the value of the current SL model by saying that less expensive Sigma lenses will work on it. But because one could already use Sigmas with an adaptor, effectively Leica has given up its propriety mount to Panasonic and in return allowed Panasonic to compete with it on camera bodies, hoping that Panasonic camera users will buy at least some Leica glass.

 

Waiting 9 months for a $4k L-mount 48 mps plastic camera with no shutter speed dial and an underdetermined UI doesn't bring a lot of joy. Now, if Leica had announced that it were simultaneously developing an SL2 in partnership with Panasonic electronics (which is probably what they're doing anyway), that'd be worth waking up early for.

Edited September 25, 2018 by bags27

[Phil_P]

Doesn't the SL camera already use a thinner sensor glass cover than other MLC cameras which use DSLR lens designs (like from Sony or now from Nikon and Canon, too)? Also M lenses supposedly work mostly very well on existing SL cameras - so if the new Panasonic cameras are optimized for SL lens usage, it automatically would allow good usage of M lenses too with a cheap L-M adapter. 

 

I believe with the introduction of the future Panasonic FF MLC cameras in L mount, the Leica SL line is pretty much dead. 

 

In the L mount Q&A under 'are there any functional limitations from one manufacturer's products to another's' it allows for some divergence. It could be, as Jono said, that a thicker sensor glass cover might suit Panasonic but also would be surprised under Leica's negotiation of licensing the L mount they didn't protect the M lens optimisation, particularly if they ever plan to bring out, apart from the SL2, an eventual EVF M sized with the option with L mount. Otherwise Leica have given quite a bit away.    For myself having just bought an SL for use with M mount glass, for occasional  zoom usage will aspire to adding Sigma glass now... not Leica!

[frame-it]

>>>

"In the future development of the L-Mount Standard within the alliance, it is possible that jointly developed and sourced key components and technology platforms (hardware and software) may become necessary. Beyond this, it is also possible that joint development programmes may lead to the sharing of key components, technologies or modules for the further development of products. Such developments would, however, be realised in the course of project-based development programmes that are independent from the L-Mount Alliance. The L-Mount Standard stipulates that products must be compatible in accordance with the specifications of the L-Mount Standard. The specifications are very far-reaching with regard to the decisive data for assured functionality and imaging performance. However, it remains open to each individual manufacturer to realise and implement additional optimisation in the interaction of components within a brand or product line, for example with special functions not covered by the specifications of the L-Mount Standard"

[bags27]

>>>

"In the future development of the L-Mount Standard within the alliance, it is possible that jointly developed and sourced key components and technology platforms (hardware and software) may become necessary. Beyond this, it is also possible that joint development programmes may lead to the sharing of key components, technologies or modules for the further development of products. Such developments would, however, be realised in the course of project-based development programmes that are independent from the L-Mount Alliance. The L-Mount Standard stipulates that products must be compatible in accordance with the specifications of the L-Mount Standard. The specifications are very far-reaching with regard to the decisive data for assured functionality and imaging performance. However, it remains open to each individual manufacturer to realise and implement additional optimisation in the interaction of components within a brand or product line, for example with special functions not covered by the specifications of the L-Mount Standard"

yes, reading through these canned corporate speak Q&As, it's easy to imagine lower functionaries from the three companies just shooting emails to each other, taking out anything that remotely sounded substantive. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by bags27

[frame-it]

sure...as it says in the Q&a, Leica has sold them a license to use the L mount...so each company would wanna spring some product surprises in 2019 to sell more and make more money

[bags27]

sure...as it says in the Q&a, Leica has sold them a license to use the L mount...so each company would wanna spring some product surprises in 2019 to sell more and make more money

hope that's true. thanks!

[willeica]

sure...as it says in the Q&a, Leica has sold them a license to use the L mount...so each company would wanna spring some product surprises in 2019 to sell more and make more money

 

You'd be amazed how much money can change hands in licensing deals. Firms don't just make a profit by selling goods to consumers. You are right, though, that at the end of the chain there must be some paying customers. Leica's play here is a clever one to manage a rapidly declining market for cameras and lenses. They have to carefully manage their brand and image through this process, though. It's all to play for in a rapidly changing world.

 

William

[frame-it]

yep and it helps protect them from being taken over by a drone manufacturer

You'd be amazed how much money can change hands in licensing deals. Firms don't just make a profit by selling goods to consumers. You are right, though, that at the end of the chain there must be some paying customers. Leica's play here is a clever one to manage a rapidly declining market for cameras and lenses. They have to carefully manage their brand and image through this process, though. It's all to play for in a rapidly changing world.

 

William

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[jonoslack]

Doesn't the SL camera already use a thinner sensor glass cover than other MLC cameras which use DSLR lens designs (like from Sony or now from Nikon and Canon, too)? Also M lenses supposedly work mostly very well on existing SL cameras - so if the new Panasonic cameras are optimized for SL lens usage, it automatically would allow good usage of M lenses too with a cheap L-M adapter. 

 

I believe with the introduction of the future Panasonic FF MLC cameras in L mount, the Leica SL line is pretty much dead. 

 

 

Hi There Martin

The SL does use thinner sensor glass (as the T, TL and CL do).

 

But you don't need thinner sensor glass for SL lenses, and therefore there would be no need for Panasonic to do this. . . and therefore it wouldn't allow good usage of M lenses

Thinner cover glass has a number of disadvantages (makes dust on sensor much more obvious, causes difficulty with IR pollution, weaker, more expensive). I can't see why Panasonic would spend time and money and grief making it easier for M lenses to work (thus meaning they sell less Panasonic lenses and gain no more money).

 

I also completely disagree with you that it means the SL line is pretty much dead - absolutely the contrary. Leica will not be producing clones of Panasonic cameras - they will be designing their own cameras with shared technology (just as Panasonic have - look at that viewfinder, looks just like the one from the SL). The SL2 should be made in Germany with Leica's own body design and the application of "The Essence". What it will share with Panasonic is AF technology (perhaps the SL does this too?), Base sensor technology (if not cover glass) Image stabilisation and other technologies that Leica cannot duplicate in house.

 

I think you can be sure that the SL2 looks nothing like the S1, and has it's own special features and Leica DNA.

 

best

[dkCambridgeshire]

Hi There Martin

The SL does use thinner sensor glass (as the T, TL and CL do).

 

But you don't need thinner sensor glass for SL lenses, and therefore there would be no need for Panasonic to do this. . . and therefore it wouldn't allow good usage of M lenses

Thinner cover glass has a number of disadvantages (makes dust on sensor much more obvious, causes difficulty with IR pollution, weaker, more expensive). I can't see why Panasonic would spend time and money and grief making it easier for M lenses to work (thus meaning they sell less Panasonic lenses and gain no more money).

 

I also completely disagree with you that it means the SL line is pretty much dead - absolutely the contrary. Leica will not be producing clones of Panasonic cameras - they will be designing their own cameras with shared technology (just as Panasonic have - look at that viewfinder, looks just like the one from the SL). The SL2 should be made in Germany with Leica's own body design and the application of "The Essence". What it will share with Panasonic is AF technology (perhaps the SL does this too?), Base sensor technology (if not cover glass) Image stabilisation and other technologies that Leica cannot duplicate in house.

 

I think you can be sure that the SL2 looks nothing like the S1, and has it's own special features and Leica DNA.

 

best

 

 

If Jono says we can be sure then that's better than just a rumour  

 

dunk