M Lens to Nikon Z mount adapter

[Photon42]

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2 hours ago, gyoung said:

For that sort of thing edge performance doesn't matter I suppose,  how about an infinity landscape with a 28 or 21 at 5.6, THAT will sort the men from the boys.

Gerry 

Thanks god I passed this test long back 😎

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[Basiltahan]

I am new to this forum. I am a long time Nikon user and photography teacher.

I recently purchased a Nikon Z7 with one of my main goals to put some small, light, high quality Leica lenses in front of the Nikon sensor. 

I started by borrowing a 35mm Summilux ASPH. It was a joy to use and the images were great. I did some research and found the highest praise for the 50mm Apo Summicron. So I went to test one with my 55mm Otus in tow. The size difference was laughable. The image quality (color, fall off, acuity, etc) right from f2 of the Summicron blew me away. I sold the Otus and bought the Summicron.

This had me excited to build a small light premium setup. 

I had read about the issues with wides. The 35 had not been a problem. So I started looking at others. The SEM21 was first on the list. In the center it was spectacular from wide open. In fact, out to about 60% it was amazing. But from there it dropped off. Not until f8 were the corners quite sharp and even then, they didn’t compare to the $700 Nikon f1.8 at f2.8. I tried the Zeiss 21mm f2.8 and it was worse than either. I was disappointed. 

I tried the 24mm f3.8 ASPH, and it was better than the 21 but still showed corner smearing until f5.6.

So for now, it will be the 35mm Summilux, 50mm Cron and 90mm Apo Cron (when I can find a good one) Wides will have to be larger (although the 21mm is quite light) and used with the FTZ adapter.

Just FYI the best wife I have used is the 25mm Milvus. It is magic from wide open. 

[Exodies]

I bet she is.

I suppose you are aware that Leica uses an array of lenses over their sensor to handle the oblique rays at the edges coming from wide angles.

[Basiltahan]

Hahaha. Wide not wife. 

Yes, I have read about that array. Maybe an SL at some point in the future will be something to consider.

I am sure it is the Z7 not the SEL21 that is the problem. The “smearing” in the corners doesn’t look like lens smearing. There is more of a motion blur / doubling thing happening.

Thank you.

[mmradman]

8 hours ago, Basiltahan said:

Hahaha. Wide not wife. 

Yes, I have read about that array. Maybe an SL at some point in the future will be something to consider.

I am sure it is the Z7 not the SEL21 that is the problem. The “smearing” in the corners doesn’t look like lens smearing. There is more of a motion blur / doubling thing happening.

Thank you.

When pairing Leica M with Nikon Z neither lens nor camera are problem, it is mismatch combination that is the problem.  Native lens work best on native camera, no camera manufacturer designs conciously and specifically for other brand lenses, for instance Zeiss M 15mm f2.8 is probably best at that focal length but it doesn’t work well on M digital cameras.  

If particular Leica lens, by fluke or accident if you will, work well on particular 3rd party camera it is unintended bonus, we should be grateful for it as it gives us more scope to photograph using innovative  cameras with some of the best lenses.

Once we take brand bitching out of discussion we can concentrate on identification of working combination.  I for one am grateful to early adaptors who go through the pain of discovery.  By the time I am ready to buy over 40mp sensor camera there will be probably second generation z7, probably Panasonic L mount, and maybe Sigma Foveon with L mount and most probably SL  Mark 2.  Leica may even surprise us with M body form and EVF full frame camera.  

Just a speculation on my part; There may come a time that camera manufacturers start looking into free for all lens swapping and start deliberately crippling undesirable body-lens pairings.

[wolfloid]

On 11/18/2018 at 9:11 PM, mmradman said:

Leica may even surprise us with M body form and EVF full frame camera.

And pigs might fly!

Of course, it would be an obvious thing for Leica to do, and they could do it relatively easily. Apparently, the Nikon Z7 viewfinder is excellent (excellent optics) and seemingly much smaller than that in the SL, so it would probably be a possible size for an EVF M. Leica could then sell us a dinky, slow, high quality zoom for travel - perhaps 28-70 f4 with stabilisation. New markets! Come on Leica, think outside that narrow little box.

[lct]

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On 11/18/2018 at 9:11 PM, mmradman said:

Leica may even surprise us with M body form and EVF full frame camera.  

17 minutes ago, wolfloid said:

And pigs might fly!

According to Macfilos, « Stefan Daniel pointed out that there had been some interest among consumers for an M camera with an EVF in place of the rangefinder. Such a “second M” had not been ruled out ». http://macfilos.com/photo/2018/10/9/leica-the-l-mount-stabilisation-and-the-rangefinderless-m-camera.

[Photon42]

I am first in line for an M with an EVF. Grown up CL, but of course no display on the back to balance off the electrons in the viewfinder 😬.

On a separate note, the longer M lenses actually do very well on the Z7. In case you have a Z and some M lenses with at least one 50 or above, I would encourage you to buy a proper adapter. My 35 Summilux ASPH behaves fine (latest version), same with 50/75/90. I may try the older 2/28 somewhen. Of course the Z hasn't been designed with M lenses in mind, but the experience is better than I have seen on a number of other non-Leicas.

[LichtUndDunkelheit]

I would assume that Nikon Z with Leica M glas will work better once we get smaller sensor stacks for the Z.

The Z, just like pretty much all other mirrorless, has a pretty thick sensor stack. Thats because if theres any dirt on the sensor stack, if the stack is thick, it does less damage than if the stack was thin.

The Leica M however is a film camera and  thick sensor stack isnt helping with optical formulas computed for film, thats why a thin sensor stack is needed.

Kolari will probably sooner or later offer one for Nikon Z (and Canon R and the Panasonic mirrorless when it comes out).

[Photon42]

it already works surprisingly well. Try it if you have the chance. I do not want to speculate about the reasons for it - I do not know enough about it.

[TomB_tx]

Ken Rockwell (pardon the expression) has been very critical of adapting Leica M lenses to other bodies, especially Sony with its thick cover glass, but just posted about trying them on the Z7 where he finds even modest wide angles work pretty well.

[wolfloid]

On 11/29/2018 at 4:28 PM, LichtUndDunkelheit said:

The Z, just like pretty much all other mirrorless, has a pretty thick sensor stack.

That does not seem to be the case, which is why the 35 luxes seem to work very, very well, and even the 21 SEM is good. There will still be some lenses that do not adapt well, but it seems that so far it is much better than the Sony A7rIII.

[Basiltahan]

Oh! But WATE!

The Z7 + WATE is a match made in wide angle heaven. I just bought an “as new” 16-18-21 Elmar. Made in 2018.

It is all about the entrance pupil being more forward to steepen the angle of incidence with the sensor stack. The WATE performs perfect right out to the corners. Excellent at f4. Perfect at 5.6.

Hooray!

[mmradman]

1 hour ago, Basiltahan said:

Oh! But WATE!

The Z7 + WATE is a match made in wide angle heaven. I just bought an “as new” 16-18-21 Elmar. Made in 2018.

It is all about the entrance pupil being more forward to steepen the angle of incidence with the sensor stack. The WATE performs perfect right out to the corners. Excellent at f4. Perfect at 5.6.

Hooray!

Oh dear, i was sitting on the fence about WATE for a long time, and than your post 🙉...so just ordered one, Merry Christmas me.  WATE was reports to be performing well on Sony digitals so it optics must have been designed with digital sensor in mind.

Actually I am looking forward to use it on my M and SL cameras.  

Getting into Z7 or equivalent would mean major shift in my data processing; new cards which are quite expensive compared to SD, new card readers, extra storage etc, who ever said digital photography is more accessible than film never used anything other than simple point & shoot.

[Basiltahan]

10 hours ago, mmradman said:

Oh dear, i was sitting on the fence about WATE for a long time, and than your post 🙉...so just ordered one, Merry Christmas me.  WATE was reports to be performing well on Sony digitals so it optics must have been designed with digital sensor in mind.

Actually I am looking forward to use it on my M and SL cameras.  

Getting into Z7 or equivalent would mean major shift in my data processing; new cards which are quite expensive compared to SD, new card readers, extra storage etc, who ever said digital photography is more accessible than film never used anything other than simple point & shoot.

So sorry about that. (To your bank account).

I am sure the WATE was not designed for digital sensors. Rather, the multiple focal lengths made it necessary to make it retrofocal, moving the entrance pupil further forward.

I am so happy though, as I thought I would still need an FTZ and one big lens on my long distance outing.

I know this is a Leica forum, so apologies in advance, but I thought it was worth noting:

My Travel Kit is now: Z7, with two or three of the following: WATE, 35 1.4 ZM, Apo 50 Summicron, 85 f4 ZM, 135,f4 Tele-Elmar

But, if I am in a car or have an "assistant" I also use Milvus 25 1.4 (an absolutely incredible lens with no M equal), Nikon 105 f1.4, Nikon 200mm f4 macro and Nikon 300mm f4 PF. These lenses have no small light equivalents on the Z7.

 

[jaapv]

I'm sorry, the WATE was introduced as a companion lens to the M8 at Photokina 2006. It was very much designed with digital sensors in mind.

[Basiltahan]

7 hours ago, jaapv said:

I'm sorry, the WATE was introduced as a companion lens to the M8 at Photokina 2006. It was very much designed with digital sensors in mind.

Ok. Thank you. That is good to know and I am sorry for the misinformation.

 

 

[Photon42]

On 12/4/2018 at 2:33 AM, jaapv said:

I'm sorry, the WATE was introduced as a companion lens to the M8 at Photokina 2006. It was very much designed with digital sensors in mind.

And along with the Frankenfinder, allowing to adjust field of view for the M8's crop factor.

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[jdlaing]

5 hours ago, Photon42 said:

And along with the Frankenfinder, allowing to adjust field of view for the M8's crop factor.

Not quite.

Frankenfinder was put out for the WATE and if you use it to correct for an APSH size sensor you’ll be disappointed.

[Photon42]

18 hours ago, jdlaing said:

Not quite.

Frankenfinder was put out for the WATE and if you use it to correct for an APSH size sensor you’ll be disappointed.

I do not think so. The frame-lines provided in the Frankenfinder are set up to also let you select a proper frame for an M8 with the WATE. Thus frame-lines for 21, 24, and 28mm are also included, nicely matching the cropped view for 15-18-21 on an M8. But of course for full frame this covers the complete Leica wide angle range.