M10 M-D

[plaidshirts]

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5 minutes ago, sebben said:

Would be nice if the made the thumb rest optional. My other question is why is the smaller thumb hump and wheel still there? They could have removed that as well and made it as minimal as possible. 

It would be useless for me as my thumb rests a little below, where the hump is, on my M-D.

[Guest]

Right ramarren, it is pretty stupid that the only reason for it being there is as a thumb-rest.

If it had wound the shutter instead, ( and been a thumb-rest too ), then I would have been stupid enough to order one.

[plaidshirts]

2 minutes ago, petermullett said:

Right ramarren, it is pretty stupid that the only reason for it being there is as a thumb-rest.

If it had wound the shutter instead, ( and been a thumb-rest too ), then I would have been stupid enough to order one.

A la Epson R-D1

[sebben]

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If they made a version that removed these 4 redundant controls we would have the perfect digital M in my opinion. Date can be set via wifi, so I really don't understand why all those extra buttons and dials are there...

 

[jmr237]

As a current M-D user who eagerly anticipated the M10-D, I think Leica has strayed from the spirit of the original M-D.

They may have produced a camera which has a wider appeal than the original M-D, and in that sense perhaps they made a start move, but this new camera is not for me. Here's why:

--exposure compensation dial on rear looks to be more cumbersome than the M-D's approach of using the thumb wheel (which is extremely fast and can be done while looking through the VF)

--the fake advance lever strikes me as an indulgent vanity; furthermore, I don't think it is necessary, as the lack of screen on the M-D allows you to place your thumb on the rear of the camera in a more comfortable way than with digital M models that have a screen

--the ISO wheel on the original M-D is very fast and intuitive, allows for 1/3 stop adjustments, and in my opinion is superior to the ISO knob on the M10

--the EVF and mobile app connection seems to take the M10-D away from the spirit of focusing on pictures, not screens; it also makes things MORE complicated and cumbersome; I don't want to take a picture, take out my phone, futz around with transferring images and changing settings, etc. This is the opposite of the simple elegance of the M-D. At that point, wouldn't the standard M10 or M10-P seem like a much more elegant and simple approach?

--the price at $8K begs the question of why you wouldn't just get an M10-P for reasons stated above

--no black paint option

The point of the M-D is that you do not have these extra options; you focus on visualizing your image, taking the picture, and moving on. It allows no means for you to stare at screens instead of engaging in the real world, or to be distant from your companions because you are reviewing images and playing with camera settings. Not only does this new M10-D seem to stray from that spirit, but it does so in a way that makes the standard M10 and M10-P seem like better implementations of the original M-D concept!

 

[oldwino]

35 minutes ago, willeica said:

I don't like the term 'analog'.  It should just be film. 'Analog' was adopted only after digital arrived to mean 'not digital' for people who did not know what film was.  I don't accept the term 'mirrorless' either and as for 'files' instead of photos, this has me reaching for a shotgun. 'Digi-babble' has truly taken over.

While a lot of folks think that any Leica M is a film camera, the only way for a photographer to get the real film experience is to use a film camera. Anything else is just 'let's pretend', but marketing people , including those at Leica, are good at selling dreams and illusions. I presume they have done their market research on this one.

William

"Capture" is my "favorite".

[oldwino]

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4 minutes ago, jmr237 said:

As a current M-D user who eagerly anticipated the M10-D, I think Leica has strayed from the spirit of the original M-D.

They may have produced a camera which has a wider appeal than the original M-D, and in that sense perhaps they made a start move, but this new camera is not for me. Here's why:

--exposure compensation dial on rear looks to be more cumbersome than the M-D's approach of using the thumb wheel (which is extremely fast and can be done while looking through the VF)

--the fake advance lever strikes me as an indulgent vanity; furthermore, I don't think it is necessary, as the lack of screen on the M-D allows you to place your thumb on the rear of the camera in a more comfortable way than with digital M models that have a screen

--the ISO wheel on the original M-D is very fast and intuitive, allows for 1/3 stop adjustments, and in my opinion is superior to the ISO knob on the M10

--the EVF and mobile app connection seems to take the M10-D away from the spirit of focusing on pictures, not screens; it also makes things MORE complicated and cumbersome; I don't want to take a picture, take out my phone, futz around with transferring images and changing settings, etc. This is the opposite of the simple elegance of the M-D. At that point, wouldn't the standard M10 or M10-P seem like a much more elegant and simple approach?

--the price at $8K begs the question of why you wouldn't just get an M10-P for reasons stated above

--no black paint option

The point of the M-D is that you do not have these extra options; you focus on visualizing your image, taking the picture, and moving on. It allows no means for you to stare at screens instead of engaging in the real world, or to be distant from your companions because you are reviewing images and playing with camera settings. Not only does this new M10-D seem to stray from that spirit, but it does so in a way that makes the standard M10 and M10-P seem like better implementations of the original M-D concept!

 

You know there will be a black paint version at some point. For $9K. 

And then they'll release a stripped down version of this camera, with zero connectivity, for even more money. The Leica M10-DP   (pun intended)

[plaidshirts]

5 minutes ago, jmr237 said:

As a current M-D user who eagerly anticipated the M10-D, I think Leica has strayed from the spirit of the original M-D.

They may have produced a camera which has a wider appeal than the original M-D, and in that sense perhaps they made a start move, but this new camera is not for me. Here's why:

--exposure compensation dial on rear looks to be more cumbersome than the M-D's approach of using the thumb wheel (which is extremely fast and can be done while looking through the VF)

--the fake advance lever strikes me as an indulgent vanity; furthermore, I don't think it is necessary, as the lack of screen on the M-D allows you to place your thumb on the rear of the camera in a more comfortable way than with digital M models that have a screen

--the ISO wheel on the original M-D is very fast and intuitive, allows for 1/3 stop adjustments, and in my opinion is superior to the ISO knob on the M10

--the EVF and mobile app connection seems to take the M10-D away from the spirit of focusing on pictures, not screens; it also makes things MORE complicated and cumbersome; I don't want to take a picture, take out my phone, futz around with transferring images and changing settings, etc. This is the opposite of the simple elegance of the M-D. At that point, wouldn't the standard M10 or M10-P seem like a much more elegant and simple approach?

--the price at $8K begs the question of why you wouldn't just get an M10-P for reasons stated above

--no black paint option

The point of the M-D is that you do not have these extra options; you focus on visualizing your image, taking the picture, and moving on. It allows no means for you to stare at screens instead of engaging in the real world, or to be distant from your companions because you are reviewing images and playing with camera settings. Not only does this new M10-D seem to stray from that spirit, but it does so in a way that makes the standard M10 and M10-P seem like better implementations of the original M-D concept!

 

That is a spot-on analysis. As an M-D owner, I agree with all points (except may the wifi option for those times when I'm days away from civilization but still have my phone even though there's no cell service...).

[Dr No]

Ayecarumba this is terrible.

Never in a million years would I think Leica would do something so frivolous and silly as the winder thumb rest.

Is April Fools?

[ramarren]

Aside from my complete disgust with the faux wind lever, I really dislike intensely the whole "digital with an analog soul" meme their marketing is pushing. I really don't give a rat's patootie about "analog vs digital" (and it should be "film vs digital capture" anyway) when I buy a Leica M, and don't want to be reminded of it at all. 

What happened to Das Wesentliche? To simple, straightforward, useful things as the focus that the M-D model so beautifully typifies? I don't buy an $6000 camera to send snapshots to my "friends" on FaceBook ... I have a perfectly excellent iPhone 8 Plus to do that with. I buy a Leica M to do photography with, and I don't send my Leica M photographs to others without considering them, rendering them, and presenting them the way I want them to be, which is not necessarily the way the camera recorded them. Access to the Visoflex 020 and the use of R lenses with the R Adapter M, and all that that implies, is a functional improvement. A faux wind lever and making a smartphone essential to get all of the functionality out of the camera is contradictory to the intent of Das Wesentliche ... 

Idiocy, IMO. Marketing gone amuck. And, the gods know, they'll probably sell a boatload of 'em. 🤮  Feh: I'm glad I have the M-D. 

[fjolnir]

Since it’s announced, here’s the quickstart guide they accidentally put in the box with my M10-P:  http://d.asgeirsson.is/9OMyPJ

[evikne]

25 minutes ago, jmr237 said:

--the EVF and mobile app connection seems to take the M10-D away from the spirit of focusing on pictures, not screens; it also makes things MORE complicated and cumbersome; I don't want to take a picture, take out my phone, futz around with transferring images and changing settings, etc. This is the opposite of the simple elegance of the M-D. At that point, wouldn't the standard M10 or M10-P seem like a much more elegant and simple approach?

We don't have to use an iPhone to take pictures. We just have the possibility. But I mostly agree. Unlike most other models, this camera gave me no love at first sight. 

[elmars]

The camera is a beauty. This alone can be a reason to buy it. The better reason is the fake lever. It is the much better thumbs up. As a beta tester I had the chance to try it. It is unobstrusive and much more secure. I loved it, I could hold the camera like I ever held my M6.

[scott kirkpatrick]

20 minutes ago, ramarren said:

. A faux wind lever and making a smartphone essential to get all of the functionality out of the camera is contradictory to the intent of Das Wesentliche ... 

 

We can disagree about the thumb rest (I do agree that it is kinda "faux."  I think of it as like an English "folly."), but it works for me.  And surely you don't want to use the thumbwheel and two buttons to set the few things that you might want to get right.  I took it out of the box with the factory settings, before the fotos app could change anything that mattered, shot it for two weeks, and just loved it.  The Visoflex for use with 24, and 18 mm M lenses proved very useful.  Otherwise it stayed in my pocket.  I'm getting one as a second M10.

[WvE]

Leica should have been bolder by giving the lever a more clever function. This looks a bit phoney to me. Not my camera but I expect it will sell anyway (price elasticity laws don't apply to Leica, apparently).  

[new2leica]

This camera reminds me of the M6TTL Millenium.  

[calijax]

I'm so disappointed. 

Blackstone < Barnack

 

 

[Jeff S]

I just hope they don’t stink up an eventual M10 Monochrom with the silly wind lever.  

I also wonder if the lever compromises weather sealing to any degree.

No thanks for required  phone apps.  But then I was never a fan of the original M-D anyway; good for those who appreciate it, but this version has jumped the shark on ‘essentials’.  More like retro kitsch and redundant.

Jeff

[jonnyboy]

 

I don't understand what's 'cool' about the wind lever - it's embarrassing. On the next model what they going to do? they going to let you slide in some rolls of film and still shoot on an sd-card? 😓

 

 

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[traderjoe]

4 minutes ago, calijax said:

I'm so disappointed. 

Blackstone < Barnack

 

 

Me too.  A Monochrom M-D would make me much happier...