historical brown vulcanite

[wlaidlaw]

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Ottmar told me that my IIIg would have to be carefully matched to whichever MOOLY-C I bought and there was no 100% guarantee it would be successful. My IIIa and 2 speed MOOLY seem to be getting used to each other and now they are working perfectly (at least on speed 2 but I am told that speed 1 often only works at the top of the spring wind ), so I might just stop while I am ahead. 

 

I am going to a festival this evening celebrating the French resistance at a nearby town (Salernes). I was going to take my IIIa with MOOLY and an LTM 50 Summilux III on it but I am not sure how well using a period Leica would go down. I might need to wear an "I am Scottish" badge 

 

Wilson

[willeica]

Ottmar told me that my IIIg would have to be carefully matched to whichever MOOLY-C I bought and there was no 100% guarantee it would be successful. My IIIa and 2 speed MOOLY seem to be getting used to each other and now they are working perfectly (at least on speed 2 but I am told that speed 1 often only works at the top of the spring wind ), so I might just stop while I am ahead. 

 

I am going to a festival this evening celebrating the French resistance at a nearby town (Salernes). I was going to take my IIIa with MOOLY and an LTM 50 Summilux III on it but I am not sure how well using a period Leica would go down. I might need to wear an "I am Scottish" badge 

 

Wilson

 

You are absolutely right about matching all early Leica winders, SCNOO, MOOLY and SYOOM with LTM cameras. I can verify this from using all 3 of those winders on various items from my large LTM collection. I usually stop when I find one that works, but any skilled Leica camera mechanic can do the required adjustment, usually a re-orientation of the wind spindle.

 

Good luck with the resistance event in Salernes. What might get you off the hook is the story that HCB, whose grave is not too far away from where you are, is supposed to have buried his Leica during WW II. I am not sure whether he was more worried about compatriots or invaders getting their hands on his precious camera.

 

William

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[wlaidlaw]

William, 

 

I am told that the IIIg needs to have a different spindle fitted and some parts for the internal shutter release. Ottmar has a very few of these sets of parts left. However, my IIIg is such a lovely original camera in almost unused condition (apart from the screw for the self timer, where some idiot has tightened it with too narrow a screwdriver, burring and chipping the chrome), that I an a bit reluctant to mess about with it. I have found that "English Pattern" gunsmiths screwdrivers are the best for these large diameter head, soft material screws with narrow slots, to avoid damage. Alan will be replacing the damaged screw during the CLA in October, as it catches my eye every time I look at it.  

 

Wilson

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[willeica]

William, 

 

I am told that the IIIg needs to have a different spindle fitted and some parts for the internal shutter release. Ottmar has a very few of these sets of parts left. However, my IIIg is such a lovely original camera in almost unused condition (apart from the screw for the self timer, where some idiot has tightened it with too narrow a screwdriver, burring and chipping the chrome), that I an a bit reluctant to mess about with it. I have found that "English Pattern" gunsmiths screwdrivers are the best for these large diameter head, soft material screws with narrow slots, to avoid damage. Alan will be replacing the damaged screw during the CLA in October, as it catches my eye every time I look at it.  

 

Wilson

 

Thanks Wilson. We are a long way from brown vulcanite now, probably thanks to my friend Bill Rosauer (aka 'derleicaman'). I have just tried my SYOOM on my IIIg and I find that it needs about 1.5 pulls to get it wound on fully, whereas 1 pull is enough for my IIIc/IIIf BD sharkskin where it currently resides. I don't know whether this is due to an incorrect spindle or one that is not properly oriented. I don't have a MOOLY C to do a similar test, just an ordinary one.

 

I am pretty 'make do' when it comes to screws and screwdrivers. You would have been horrified if you saw what I did with screws last night when transferring the 'film cassette lock' from one of my two 1926 I Model As to the other one in order to load a modern film cassette. One has the old 'long headed lock' for the FILCA and while I have about about a dozen FILCAs of various sorts, I feel that life is too short to be bulk loading film cassettes in the dark. I was encouraged by an article in the LHSA Viewfinder magazine (edited by Bill Rosauer) about a 1925 3 digit SN I model which had done service with a professional photographer in Heidelberg, which I will visit in October after the LHSA event in Wetzlar. I have never put a roll of film through I Model A SN 1661 from 1926, which is my oldest Leica. I managed to get a roll of film in a modern cassette into the camera last night, but it rained in Dublin today and I may not be able to do the test for another week or so. I will report on the results here, but I may start another thread on the subject, as the 'brown vulcanite' topic has been stretched quite far. I believe that SN 1661 had a long and eventful working life in India, but somebody there must have been using FILCAs for quite a long time.

 

William

[wlaidlaw]

Bulk film was probably all you could get in India until US troops arrived there in 1943 (to build the Burma Road), so FILCA cassettes would have been essential. My grandfather who started with a Model II in 1935, always used Leica cassettes, as they were all still sitting in a drawer in our family house where my Grandfather had lived until he died in 1946, along with a home made loading handle and some old tins of bulk film. In the north of Scotland, I would doubt that pre-filled cassettes would have been commonly available until possibly post war, other than in the major towns. My father said he had taken one roll of Kodachrome in 1941, which his New York agent had brought across but then could not get it processed in the UK until post war. 

 

Wilson

[Pyrogallol]

I always use the reloadable cassettes, it feels wrong to use anything else, except in my M6 which does not have the traditional key in the base.

But some reloadable cassettes refuse to open in some screw bodies, you just have to pick one that the camera likes.

[willeica]

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I always use the reloadable cassettes, it feels wrong to use anything else, except in my M6 which does not have the traditional key in the base.

But some reloadable cassettes refuse to open in some screw bodies, you just have to pick one that the camera likes.

 

You should really shoot with slow 'period' film with low ISO equivalence (they did not have ISO in those days, of course) to finish off the 'period' effect. That would really sort out the men from the boys. For my own part when I shoot with film on old cameras I am just trying to get photos along with the enjoyment of using a marvellous piece of equipment which gives much more pleasure in use than any of today's digi-wonders ( I have a few of them as well, of course). My FILCAs will probably just remain what they are, collectors' items.

 

William

[TomB_tx]

I usually load my FILCAs with PanF 50 "ASA" (I'm old school), and usually 20 exposures. That would have been medium fast film in the early 1950s, and 125 was really fast. Try indoor available light with an Elmar and PanF to really re-live the experience.

[SH62]

On 8/6/2018 at 8:02 AM, derleicaman said:

Absolutely correct that Vulcanite (Vulkanit) is a rubber petrochemical based product. When my collection was housed in my store in a display case with fluorescent lighting, some of the Vulcanite on several screw mount cameras was turning brown. I suspect exposure to UV radiation was causing the problem. I used a car detailing product for preserving and restoring the black appearance of door seals, dashes and tires on the Vulcanite with good success. I think the product I used was called Back to Black. Currently I think Maguires makes the best of these types of rubber treatments.

When Vulcanite was applied new to the body shells in the factory it was heated to make it pliable to help it conform to the body shape. I believe some type of shellac was applied to the body shell to promote adhesion of the Vulcanite. I think perhaps Jerzy could give some insight here.

At the time, it was considered to be a improvement over the leather coverings used by other camera companies. If you look at older Contax cameras with leather covering, they show wear and discoloration and some also exhibit "Zeiss Disease" where chemical interaction between the leather covering and the metal underneath causes bumps to appear on the body shell. I have also seen reports about the leather body covering on the first Nikon rangefinders being carcinogenic due to the tanning salts used then and not being cleared properly!

Keep in mind that the Leica I is over 90 years old. These cameras have held up remarkably well all things considered. Leica used Vulcanite from 1925 to 1984 with the introduction of a vinyl covering being used on the M6. I have seen many M cameras with beautiful Vulcanite which looked like it just came out of the factory, as well as some where the covering is brittle and coming off in sheets. Interestingly, some of the best preserved Vulcanite I have seen is the "Sharkskin" type used for a short period in the late 40's. It is also apparent that Leitz made some change to the Vulcanite being used from the original Model I cameras to the later IIIf, IIIg and M cameras.

Vulcanite (Ebonite) isn't actually a petrochemical compound - it is a mix of natural latex rubber, linseed oil, sulphur and colourants. UV light will affect it and black vulcanite can degrade to brown or green over time.

Smokers pipe stems, battery cases, fountain pen bodies and many other things were made of the stuff 

[nf3996]

The first Leica that I ever used or collected was a IIIa bought back in the late 1980s. Its vulcanite had turned green and smelt awful. The camera has now long gone, but to this day the IIIa remains my least favourite Leica, no doubt due to that one's particularly dire covering!

Alan

[wlaidlaw]

If you read back on this thread, you will find my recipe for a very considerable amelioration of khaki green Vulcanite to at least a very dark brown, almost black. 

Wilson