Leica M10 Light meter underexposing

[david strachan]

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Usually leave my M's on auto exposure and hunt the scene for lock-half press (after focusing). One always needs to assess the scene, after all exposure is a user input...always.

 

If the light is even, and I'm taking same general scenes, then i might set to manual setting. Sometimes with a white subject in a darker setting, one has to set compensation, very easy on the 240, to how you want that exposed.

 

It all depends with every picture...luckily with digital we can check exposure (and focus) then reshoot.

 

Jaaps image of the "centre-weighted" pattern should be burned into all M users minds.

 

...

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[adan]

I see what you mean, though, on the original shot. The red channel might be clipped. In that case it is over-exposed. No way to tell without DNG.

 

Actually, it is the blue channel that is nudging 254-255 in the brightest part of the blouse - due to the blue-green (complement of red) fluorescent light from under the kitchen cabinet.

 

The red channel in the blouse never gets above about 157.

[jaapv]

That's what comes from being too lazy to measure

[250swb]

Just wanted to show that how much post-processing can do, without obvious blown highlights.

 

 

Except now the picture has a horrible HDR look to it, but yes, it shows there is still some detail in the shadows.

 

I'm surprised because the OP has used cameras in the past that require exactly the same regime in metering as the M10 does in it's centre-weighted mode. Perhaps he's not fully appreciating that the M10 is at heart still an old style mechanical camera with a sensor bolted on the back.

[lukedavidkellett]

It may well be that the term "centre-weighed" is confusing to some.

Let's analyse the metering pattern, as it is more like a extended spot meter than a gradual centre-weighed. Once one has the pattern in mind, the use of the meter becomes self-explaining.

 

 

 

courtesy Lindolfi, from the Leica M FAQ

 

pattern.jpg

 

 

 

This also shows that it is rather useless to set a fixed exposure compensation, as the amount of compensation needed depends entirely on the position of the highlights and shadows.

The best way to go about it is to treat it as a real spot meter and point the centre of the viewfinder at the essential part of the image and recompose, much as you are doing with the focusing.

 

So: point-focus-half-press-recompose-shoot.

Or, even better, don't use "A" and half-press, but manual exposure. That is basically what the camera does best.

AMAZING! Thank you! Great explanation and information. Greatly appreciated. You guys are right I treated it as a 'new' digital camera as opposed to an older style meter system. 

[lukedavidkellett]

Except now the picture has a horrible HDR look to it, but yes, it shows there is still some detail in the shadows.

 

I'm surprised because the OP has used cameras in the past that require exactly the same regime in metering as the M10 does in it's centre-weighted mode. Perhaps he's not fully appreciating that the M10 is at heart still an old style mechanical camera with a sensor bolted on the back.

Thanks for the feedback. Definitely correct was treating it like a digital camera not an older meter style. Appreciate the response. 

[lukedavidkellett]

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If you (or the camera's auto exposure), had exposed this scene more then the colors on the brightly lit clothing and other bright areas would have been washed away. I like the way digital M's simple center weighted light metering preserves the bright areas. The darker areas can be lifted in PP as in Arnaud's fix above.

 

It is exposing for the highlights.

100% understood. I guess I am used to getting the shot 'right' in camera. eg. having a perfect contact sheet of beautifully exposed images.

Getting used to how to achieve this is going to take some practice again. Not so worried about 'blown' highlights (within reason) to be perfectly honest. I'm interested more of achieving the 'look' i'm after than a 'perfectly' exposed image. 

[jaapv]

AMAZING! Thank you! Great explanation and information. Greatly appreciated. You guys are right I treated it as a 'new' digital camera as opposed to an older style meter system. 

Well, with Leica it is not so much about the camera creating the perfect shot for you, but more about the camera providing the information to allow the photographer to get it right.

[willeica]

The M10 meter can give under exposure when there is a bright light source in the frame. In order to overcome this you either need to apply exposure compensation or to meter from a mid tone source in the frame and then re-compose. Using automatic exposure the camera will hold exposure if you keep light pressure on the shutter button. It is certainly more sensitive than the meters of some other current models and I always have to re-adjust my exposure thinking coming back to the M10 after using other cameras which give a more automated exposure reading using matrix type readings. The M240 line is somewhat similar when centre-weighted metering is used. I am very pleased with the M10 results I have got. I don't know how photographers manage with the M-D where they have no idea about exposure results until they download. In the film days we relied on film latitude and dark room manipulation to compensate for under/over exposure. Today we have post processing in Lightroom/Photoshop etc. It is always better to get the exposure right in the first instance, though. In that respect the M10, properly used, is a great teacher.

 

William

[lukedavidkellett]

The M10 meter can give under exposure when there is a bright light source in the frame. In order to overcome this you either need to apply exposure compensation or to meter from a mid tone source in the frame and then re-compose. Using automatic exposure the camera will hold exposure if you keep light pressure on the shutter button. It is certainly more sensitive than the meters of some other current models and I always have to re-adjust my exposure thinking coming back to the M10 after using other cameras which give a more automated exposure reading using matrix type readings. The M240 line is somewhat similar when centre-weighted metering is used. I am very pleased with the M10 results I have got. I don't know how photographers manage with the M-D where they have no idea about exposure results until they download. In the film days we relied on film latitude and dark room manipulation to compensate for under/over exposure. Today we have post processing in Lightroom/Photoshop etc. It is always better to get the exposure right in the first instance, though. In that respect the M10, properly used, is a great teacher.

 

William

Great overview thank you. :-) 

[CharlesL]

"treat it as a real spot meter" - So has anyone here used an auxiliary spot meter in order to set manual exposure on the camera? Worth it?

[jaapv]

Not needed. The camera has a real spot meter built in in Live View.

[M11 for me]

Actually I do not know if it is a very good idea to use the metering as a spot metering (if this is the general rule). I do a lot of landscape and therefor there is most often a portion of sky in the picture. If you use the light meter now as a spot meter and expose lets say on a meadow in the middle of the frame then most often the sky is blown out which destroys the whole picture. Then metering into the sky is not the solution either as the meter would then put that brightness into the middle of the histogram and the dark areas would then probably be too dark (or darker than necessary). What I do in such situations is to measure the brightest spot in the picture that I do not want to be blown out. This brightest spot then I overexpose by 2 LV which moves these briht spots more to the right in the histogaram and they are still not blown out. This is my method for day time with bright light.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Alex U.

[lincoln_m]

Hi,

I just got an M10 and noticed this underexposure when bright highlights are in the frame. I also read in the manual that those 3 exposure modes only apply when using Live View. If you are using the M10 like a film M (using the rangefinder exposure meter) then there is only one photo diode receiving the light reflected off the shutter curtain so spot, centre weighted, multi setting has no affect on the actual exposure. Like an M7 you need to move the camera around the scene to understand the (zones) and decide on the one you want, or apply some exposure compensation, or half press while on the subject (without the bright highlights) to fix the required shutter speed then reframe and shoot.

 

Now I realised the M10 is basically the M7 with a digital sensor it makes sense, and I have to forget the Sony A7 behaviour I'm used to for digital cameras.

 

Lincoln

[a.noctilux]

Spot metering of M10 is nice to have and used when need be.

 

I use "moving Spot" where it's very efficient, in my slide copying with M10 + BEOON + Focotar 50.

Slides are very hard to obtain "best exposure while copy" when they are a bit contrasty.

M10 spot which can be set everywhere in the frame : very handy to measure contrast on different parts of the slide.

[lukedavidkellett]

Hi,

I just got an M10 and noticed this underexposure when bright highlights are in the frame. I also read in the manual that those 3 exposure modes only apply when using Live View. If you are using the M10 like a film M (using the rangefinder exposure meter) then there is only one photo diode receiving the light reflected off the shutter curtain so spot, centre weighted, multi setting has no affect on the actual exposure. Like an M7 you need to move the camera around the scene to understand the (zones) and decide on the one you want, or apply some exposure compensation, or half press while on the subject (without the bright highlights) to fix the required shutter speed then reframe and shoot.

 

Now I realised the M10 is basically the M7 with a digital sensor it makes sense, and I have to forget the Sony A7 behaviour I'm used to for digital cameras.

 

Lincoln

Bang on! Thanks for the M7 comparison. Re training my brain :-) 

[astrostl]

Probably repeating, but simply:

 

It's center-weighted if you're not in live view. Exposure locks with a half-press and hold on the shutter. Too dark? Aim more toward a darker part of your framing, lock, and recompose. Too light? Do the opposite.

[Gobert]

Probably repeating, but simply:

 

It's center-weighted if you're not in live view. Exposure locks with a half-press and hold on the shutter. Too dark? Aim more toward a darker part of your framing, lock, and recompose. Too light? Do the opposite.

Indeed, I always work like this. +/- compensation feature remains untouched on my camera.

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Hallo,

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[Guest tofu_man]

 

The best way to go about it is to treat it as a real spot meter and point the centre of the viewfinder at the essential part of the image and recompose,

 

That's OK for static scenes but not much use for street or reportage photography. Exposure compensation is a more practical way to go...

[jaapv]

Not really - In that case set the camera to manual, measure the light in the essential area and happily shoot away.