Getting a MATE - pure GAS or simply very smart?

[MarkP]

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...and no I didn’t pump the colour. It was shot in that rare clear morning sunlight that cuts in under grey clouds and makes all colours so vivid...

[jdlaing]

8 hours ago, MarkP said:

 

So being an experienced photographer you are well aware that there are plenty of lenses that allow one to shoot into a light source with reasonable if not excellent control of flare.  Often the best photos are made in more challenging lighting. 

The MATE's propensity to flare at 50mm is more complex than simply avoiding shooting into a bright light source. I have the E49 MATE. At 50mm I frequently have to shield the lens, get the light source well off to the side, or compromise composition by turning the lens well away from a bright light source (sun, lamp, very bright cloudy sky), far more than with any other 50 mm lens I have used. In this situation the flare is predictable so one can work around it.

However, not infrequently a stray light source has caused unexpected/unpredicted flare at 50mm with the MATE - reflected light such as sky off a pool of water for example, cloudy sky in the corner of the photo.  These are the situations where without an EVF one cannot plan to recompose or change to 35mm.  This flare is often more subtle, just enough loss of contrast in a critical part of the image to ruin it (but too subtle to be seen  on the cameras back screen). 

Hence my love-hate relationship with this lens (which I intend to keep).

Yes I am. 
I still stand by my statement. I say it as a matter of fact and not to be derogatory in any way.

[analog-digital]

Am 16.6.2019 um 00:29 schrieb lct:

Shooting into light sources is only a part of the problem. Reflections are an issue as well.

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When I see this, this is a NO GO for am Mate (for the price).

 

[roydonian]

A couple of examples of MATE flare.

 

 

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[Stein K S]

37 minutes ago, MarkP said:

...and no I didn’t pump the colour. It was shot in that rare clear morning sunlight that cuts in under grey clouds and makes all colours so vivid...

Thanks! Lens still on 50?
I have yet to get something to complain about with my MATE on 50... but still ¨searching¨... 😉

[Jeff S]

Samples might well vary, but there’s no question that the two I’ve owned flared at 50mm unlike various 50 M primes I’ve used under similar conditions, and I haven’t been without a 50 M prime since the 80’s. I bought the most recent MATE  from a reputable dealer just after a full service and CLA from Germany, with detailed paperwork.  It was mechanically smooth, and rendered very well, but the same extra precautions at 50 were required.  When I decided to sell it through another respected Leica dealer, the first customer who bought it returned it under guarantee due to the flare at 50. 

Based on comments from Dr. Kaufmann, I expect that we’ll see a modernized MATE for the M and SL world, with true zoom capability, at some point.

Jeff

Edited May 17, 2020 by Jeff S

[Kwesi]

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11 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Samples might well vary, but there’s no question that the two I’ve owned flared at 50mm unlike other 50 M primes I’ve used under similar conditions, and I haven’t been without a 50 prime since the 80’s. I bought the most recent copy from a reputable dealer just after a full service and CLA from Germany, with detailed paperwork.  It was mechanically smooth, and rendered very well, but the same extra precautions at 50 were required.  When I decided to sell it through another respected Leica dealer, the first customer who bought it returned it under guarantee due to the flare at 50. 

Based on comments from Dr. Kaufmann, I expect that we’ll see a modernized MATE for the M and SL world, with true zoom capability, at some point.

Jeff

Would love to see the next Q outfitted with a summicron version of the MATE. - Now that would be something to stop the presses for!

[lct]

1 hour ago, Kwesi said:

Would love to see the next Q outfitted with a summicron version of the MATE. - Now that would be something to stop the presses for!

Better go to the gym to carry such a 28-50/2 beast

 

[a.noctilux]

More or less than 1kg, next Summicron Q ?

[SiggiGun]

When I use the MATE at 50mm, I use always LV to see flare and correct a little bit the position to get a flare free image

[lct]

No problem at 40mm for LV users either (digital CL, MATE, 40mm, f/8, 0.4m).

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[marknorton]

I havent waded through all six pages of posts on the MATE, so will just add these points, apologies if there's repitition. I have both versions

- The MATE is extremely fragile; I managed to destroy one of mine by dropping it 18 inches onto concrete, it was in a lens pouch at the time so no cosmetic damage but both the the focussing and zoom rings were seized. It's relatively big money to fix and I wouldnt entrust it to anyone other than Leica.

- Be very gentle turning the zoom ring. The lens is exceptionally complex mechanically, relying on little nylon rollers to reposition the lens elements. The second version has a more distinct detent at each position.

- You should know that the glass for the front lens element is no longer available, so if you damage that lens element, that's it, paperweight. Essential therefore to use a protective filter.

- It's a convenient walk-about lens, but I've never felt it's up to the optical performance of the primes, but it does give you three focal lengths for not much money. I see I paid about £1200 for both of mine, I have no idea how much they sell for now.

[Jeff S]

28 minutes ago, marknorton said:

I see I paid about £1200 for both of mine, I have no idea how much they sell for now.

About double or more, depending of course on condition and source.

Jeff

[roydonian]

Any lens can flare under certain circumstances - on holiday a couple of years ago my eye was caught by an attractive back-lit scene, but my half-a-century old Summicron flared badly. I switched to my 35mm Summilux ASPH, but that too flared horribly.  However the fact that some people have no significant flare problems with the MATE makes me wonder if some lenses managed to leave the production line without adequate internal blackening, or with baffles incorrectly assembled or even missing. I've seen reports online from people who have sent their MATE back to the factory for checking, and now see a significant improvement, but these are matched by folk who report that a return to Leica had no effect of the 50mm flare problem.

As a journalist, I didn't fancy the prospect of having to explain that I hadn't got the picture with my expensive Leica lens, while our rivals using Nikon, Canon, or inexpensive HonkyTonk lenses had got the pic. So I stopped using the MATE, and it was consigned to being a paperweight until I retired. The recent switch from an M9 to an M-D has once again made using the MATE unwise since I can no longer check the newly-taken image for absence of flare.