Getting a MATE - pure GAS or simply very smart?

[Stein K S]

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I currently own 11 older and newer primes from 21mm to 90mm, 35mm being used the most. And I can by no means argue that I need more. If you ask what I photograph, I guess ¨life¨ in its way covers it.

 

However, a MATE V1 (mint, boxed) is now possibly available to me..., and my brains now start to wonder whether this MATE could be a convenient and a fully ¨worthy¨ replacement of some of my 28,35 and 50 primes? Meaning also potentially selling of a couple (which I must admit I am basically reluctant to... ;-).

 

So I try to formulate some questions to those of you that has found yourselves in a similar situation;

If you have one; are you happy about it? If you keep equivalent primes; why? If you sold of primes when getting the MATE; are you still happy about it?

 

PS: f4 does not bother me (using the amazing M10)... DOF though probably will...

 

PS: experiences with V1 vs V2?

 

I know it is going to be nobodys´ call but mine by the end of the day, but I am still gratefull for opinions/experiences!

 

Regards, Stein Kjetil

[wizard]

Hi Kjetil,

 

I own a MATE V2 since when it came out and love it. It is one of the lenses I would never ever sell (the more so since Leica no longer makes the MATE). Image quality is first class, and although I do own a significant number of prime lenses in that focal range as well, when going on a trip I will usually choose the MATE along with a 90mm and a 21mm lens, sometimes supplemented by a 135mm lens.

 

The MATE is just so convenient to use and draws really well, so normally there is no need for other lenses in the focal range covered by the MATE. That said, if it is clear from the beginning that lighting conditions will be marginal, such as when shooting at night, I do choose e.g. a Summilux lens instead.

 

The MATE has never let me down and is a wonderful lens for travel photography.

 

Cheers, Andy

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[Guest]

...

If it's "only" digital photos, the aspherical Summicron 28mm becomes better for me.

If necessary photos can be cropped to 35 or 50mm.

Especially at 28mm the Summicron 28 shows more sharpness than the MATE and also the enlargements still have enough reserves.

For the Summicron 28 with aperture 2.0 has a much higher initial opening. which shows its strengths especially at dusk and darkness, where one has to increase significantly the ISO number at the MATE or use a tripod.

[Ecar]

I have a V2. In a nutshell:

- excellent IQ (but AFAIC does not replace primes, except for travel, when it's always in the bag)

- a little marvel of opto-mechanical engineering, but relatively fragile due to complexity, so needs to be treated with a bit of care (eg, when switching FL); front ring also tends to become loose in my experience

- tends to flare when set @ 50mm, but can be worked around once you understand its behaviour.

[a.noctilux]

MATE can be "other choice available" when primes are "better choice".

I mean that the two types MATE/primes 28/35/50 are not for the same use.

 

...

I'm happy now that when I wanted to trade my beloved MATE to fund M10 early 2017, my wife wanted to keep the MATE.

 

Sometimes I borrowed from her and happy that my ex-MATE became her prefered mate.

 

Just in case, when I use it now at 28mm can be annoying to frame as the right-low portion hide by the Mate mount.

[jdlaing]

Very smart.

[Ko.Fe.]

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Buy, try, don't need it - sell.

MAT, VAT, shmat doesn't matter as long as it is Leica M lens. I'm not keeping ten+, but I have tried 10+ Leica made lens and as long as I was paying attention for purchasing price, I wasn't in trouble selling it .

[wda]

V1 and V2 are identical optically. Mechanically, V2 is better. But, a MATE is always hard to find. Further development is very unlikely. The pool will progressively shrink as losses will not be replaced.

Edited July 19, 2018 by wda

[Jeff S]

Great addition. But not a reason for fewer lenses in my experience... although I’ve never seen a reason for my owning more than 3-5 M lenses.

 

I owned a version 1 years ago, but sold it after it developed some mechanical issues. I bought another one recently, mint from a dealer after a full service from Germany and a dealer warranty.

 

Jeff

Edited July 19, 2018 by Jeff S

[Stein K S]

Hi and thanks to all

It seems I got the answer I expected, but also feared...;-). The MATE no matter how good it is, do not seem to replace the wish or need for primes according to most of you afterall. However, strangely I got even more tempted by your appraisals of this lensˋ capabilities.

 

But what is this stuff about mechanical troubles especially with the v1? Sounds like a potential major downside.

 

Regards, Stein Kjetil

[wda]

Leica will service the lens. Mine has never needed it but I did get it factory coded for use with digital bodies. That is worth doing. I noticed some improved performance with the later digital bodies, no doubt due to higher resolution sensors.

 

Regarding the lens you are considering, a gentle testing of frame selection when altering focal length will confirm whether the lens is OK mechanically. Check that the click stops work when setting focal length.

 

As to performance, the lens yields optimum resolution at full aperture and barely improves on stopping down. With care, you can easily cope with flair at 50mm.

[a.noctilux]

Hi and thanks to all

It seems I got the answer I expected, but also feared...;-). The MATE no matter how good it is, do not seem to replace the wish or need for primes according to most of you afterall. However, strangely I got even more tempted by your appraisals of this lensˋ capabilities.

 

But what is this stuff about mechanical troubles especially with the v1? Sounds like a potential major downside.

 

Regards, Stein Kjetil

 

- Some Mate v1 can be hard to set the framelines on some M bodies, mainly at 28mm.

What I understand is the spring load to select the 28mm frames can be weak.

Mine (now my wife's) sometimes select the 28mm framelines but sometimes NOT (need to be set passing a small bit then return to 28).

 

- focussing can be hard to turn to focus quickly on some MATE v1

(on V2, Leica replaced the focus ring with a tab)

 

- no dof scale added in V2

 

- flare at 50mm

 

...

However, those flaws can be learned to bypass or not depend on people.

[Jeff S]

I spoke to DAG before buying my second sample to get his general thoughts on the lens. He simply confirmed what I already knew.... the MATE is a very complex lens, with more things to go wrong, but he didn’t dissuade me from purchase. He still works on them, and obviously so does Leica, as my copy (version 2) was just back from Germany after a thorough service. So, worth the cost, but maybe another reason not to sell core 28/35/50 primes.

 

I’m enjoying mine, and wish Leica would produce more tri (or bi) Elmars, with more modern design like the WATE. I’d buy a longer FL version, to 75 or 90.

 

Jeff

[Keith (M)]

Whilst not equivalent to a WATE or a MATE, my 21-35mm Vario Elmar-R is nevertheless a very handy (and high-performance) walk-about lens on my M240 (and turns into a 32-52mm on my Sony A6500).

 

Yes, yes - I know I need to use the VF2, but results are so good I forgive it!  

[efreed2754]

Own the MATE v2 and love it for travel. Tend not to use it for every day stuff.

 

Picked up an APO Summicron this year before trip to Italy and Greece. Was going to leave APO home except excited about working with it

 

The APO 50 produced some stunning photos, yet when going on a trip for the day it’s the MATE that stayed on the camera. With enhanced ISO in M10 the f4 not so slow.

 

Own 35 Summicron and 50 APO yet the MATE is a must for travel. Usual kit 18, MATE, 90 or 135. Might bring 35 or APO too for low light.

 

Other advantage is have immediate access to 3 focal lengths and no dust exposure to sensor during lens change. Do get occasional flare at 50 and no mechanical issues.

 

Up to you, however if can get MATE at good price, you can see how it works for you and if not satisfied can sell for close to what you paid. No big downside and possible huge upside!

[Stein K S]

Reassuring... and probably not suprising that service will be available if needed. And thank you for all the ¨tips & tricks¨ to look for or check about this lens. I will probably get to it in a couple of weeks.

 

Regards, Stein Kjetil

[lct]

I have a v1 as well. Works fine but it can have mechanical troubles indeed, it is a well known issue. Nothing that Leica or a (very) good workshop cannot fix though. Otherwise the only flaw of this lens is flare at 50mm, in my experience at least.  

[Guest]

Whilst not equivalent to a WATE or a MATE, my 21-35mm Vario Elmar-R is nevertheless a very handy (and high-performance) walk-about lens on my M240 (and turns into a 32-52mm on my Sony A6500).

 

Yes, yes - I know I need to use the VF2, but results are so good I forgive it!  

Konica 21-35 M-mount anyone?

Unlike most original glass, it has steadily appreciated since 2010, costing twice that much now as back then (no singular observation, but sold items on ebay with feed-back = deals).

[Ecar]

Konica 21-35 M-mount anyone?

Unlike most original glass, it has steadily appreciated since 2010, costing twice that much now as back then (no singular observation, but sold items on ebay with feed-back = deals).

 

Yes. 21-35 is a very useful FL pair if you like street 'on the wide side'.

The Dual Hexanon is an impressive lens, both optically (despite some distortion at 21mm) and mechanically (easily on par with Leica IMO).

This - and its relative rarity (apparently only 800 were made) - is reflected in the price.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[stunsworth]

I had the Mk 2 and had more trouble with it that any other lens.

 

It had to go back to Leica once because it locked up and wouldn’t change focal length. It also went back, I think three times, because the aperture ring lost its indents and the aperture would change without me knowing it. Each time it came back it would eventually fail again.