Leica S3

[albireo_double]

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If the new S is in the high twenty thousand range for "just" 64 megapixels in an S007 body, I will likely try to sell the whole system if it still has enough value, and either sell a bunch of other gear and try to get in with a Phase One 100mp+ setup, or just get a 100mp Fuji. I love the lenses, ergonomics and color of the S system, but the stagnant updates and high prices are frustrating to be sure. I print huge, so the resolution does make a difference for me...certainly far more AF speed or frames per second etc. 

 

 

My thinking, too. Except I would need a couple of AF leaf shutter lenses in the Fuji system to make that decision more easily.

[mgrayson3]

Leica is not ignorant of the competition. I’m not sure what they’re going to do to address it. But I would not be surprised by a change of course from what many of us have been expecting.

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[erlingmm]

I remember Ming commenting on the difference between the (Hasselblad) 50 and 100mpx, that it was really difficult to see the difference, shooting handheld.

 

For studio/landscape on tripod, I can understand the quest for more and more megapixels (to a certain degree), but I think the strength of the S system very much is in its versatility, walk-around-ability, weather sealing etc.

 

Do you really think a smallish camera like the X1D would be better handheld as a 100 mpix X2D, in the hands of most users? Likewise, if the S3 comes out with 64 mpix as most rumours say, would that be sufficient ( ! I have never heard that word in the forum before ;-) for most usage scenarios (non-tripod)?

 

It could be less expensive, though...

 

I am not very optimistic on used value of my kit. I will probably stay with the S007 which serves me well (just printed a series from Hong Kong in A2), but I will be tempted....

[ZHNL]

Compare Leica with Fuji in terms of value will not work both way. I have to agree at the time many choose Leica S, there is no competition. Things definitely change to less favor for S.  

 

For now, I can see the potential of X1D. Great form factor and handling, great sensor. However, I doubt Hassy have the capability to make it fast read out to have a nice enough E shutter to adapter lens or make a EVF with no delay and black out, a challenge even for FF big name like Canon, Nikon and Sony for their smaller size and less resolution FF sensor. If they have focal plane shutter and responsive EVF performance comparable to FF, I might think about adapt manual lens on it. 

 

Not interested in Fuji at all for me, there is no size advantage, and no prefered OVF responsiveness, and EVF based shooting experience is not there yet. 50M is not much more than 37.5M. Most of all, anybody get out of Leica S now will have huge financial loss, is it worth the trouble? if you don't sell them, they still worth as much as the time you bought them, great performance are still there. 

 

For future 100M sensor, I bet it will be in at least 15k range for either Fuji or X1D.  For anyone need pixels, yes, it will make sense but for most S owners, stay with S seems a more sensible choice.  

[Guest]

It has many benefit over Hassy if those are important to you.

Really

Can you explain as I have both and would be interested to hear what you have to say about that.

Neil

[ZHNL]

Really

Can you explain as I have both and would be interested to hear what you have to say about that.

Neil

Other than pixel count, dynamic range maybe long exposure, I’d say S007 has all the advantages:) I never used hassy digital, only 500C film with 80mm f2.8. I would love to hear different opinion.

[Guest]

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Other than pixel count, dynamic range maybe long exposure, I’d say S007 has all the advantages:) I never used hassy digital, only 500C film with 80mm f2.8. I would love to hear different opinion.

 

The H6D100c dynamic range is far superior than that of my S007, the H6D has 16 bit colour the Leica is 12 I think, the H6D has no limit on long exposures the Leica S007 is limited to 60 seconds

 

Neil

[ZHNL]

The H6D100c dynamic range is far superior than that of my S007, the H6D has 16 bit colour the Leica is 12 I think, the H6D has no limit on long exposures the Leica S007 is limited to 60 seconds

 

Neil

I’d guess maybe one stop better DR. They are both 16bit color machine. Long exposure is always the problem of Leica sensor, any camera using Sony sensor will perform better than S.

 

Other than absolutely IQ, for me, I have to consider userbility and fun factor. S is already stretching but in a still nice balance. I have no complain for its pixels density even now. As for DR, given right condition I even prefer S006’s file.

 

I have no doubt IQ3100 has ultimately better technical IQ, but it is not a practical consideration for me in term of price and practical usage, maybe also for many other S owners.

 

Fuji and X1d are real competitors to S I feel. Cheaper but more practical, at least for me.

[Guest]

I took my S007 and H6D on safari last week in Tanzania,..........I used my H6D 95% of the time. I went to Vietnam 2 months ago shooting street photography and landscape, I only too H6D.

 

Safari pictures will be posted later today

 

Neil

[AlanD]

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#FujiFilm%20GFX%2050S,Leica%20S%20(Typ%20007),Leica%20S-E%20(Typ%20006),Phase%20One%20IQ3%20100MP

 

The 100Mp makes a big difference because when you downsample to equal pixels, there is less noise.

 

Bill Claff runs that site as a hobby and he takes the RAW files from each of those cameras from owners and runs the math on them. They are based upon nominal ISO.

[Guest]

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#FujiFilm%20GFX%2050S,Leica%20S%20(Typ%20007),Leica%20S-E%20(Typ%20006),Phase%20One%20IQ3%20100MP

 

The 100Mp makes a big difference because when you downsample to equal pixels, there is less noise.

 

Bill Claff runs that site as a hobby and he takes the RAW files from each of those cameras from owners and runs the math on them. They are based upon nominal ISO.

 

ISO performance of the H6D verses the S007 is like chalk and cheese

 

ISO1600 

[helged]

ISO performance of the H6D verses the S007 is like chalk and cheese

 

ISO1600 

 

 

 

Nice image! Shot with?

[ZHNL]

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#FujiFilm%20GFX%2050S,Leica%20S%20(Typ%20007),Leica%20S-E%20(Typ%20006),Phase%20One%20IQ3%20100MP

 

The 100Mp makes a big difference because when you downsample to equal pixels, there is less noise.

 

Bill Claff runs that site as a hobby and he takes the RAW files from each of those cameras from owners and runs the math on them. They are based upon nominal ISO.

Yes, looks like after normalized to same size, IQ3100 will have about 1.5 stop DR difference. 

[Guest]

Nice image! Shot with?

 

H6D..........I will post a link later today to some of my images that were shot with both H6D100c and S007............I am working on them right now

 

Neil

 

This one was shot with S007 and HC50mm II

[darylgo]

Great image! Which camera did you use?

My Hasselblad days were H2/Phase 45+. The images were unsharpen and it was sold. The menu system was perhaps the worst I've ever encountered except for Ricoh GR.

The camera ergonomics were good but not Leica S good. Lenses are first importance to me, bodies change but a good lens provides a lifetime of great images. One aspect never mentioned is pixel quality, I guess DR encompasses part of that but it's rarely addressed. Leica pixels excel, I can push them like no other, Nikon seems good. Sony pixels have never worked well for me but I haven't tried any of their new bodies.

[ZHNL]

ISO performance of the H6D verses the S007 is like chalk and cheese

 

ISO1600 

Nice images, hard to judge at this size but I have no doubt it will be impressive viewing full resolution. 

 

Actually, based on AlanD's link, you will see that FUJI has about same low light performance as IQ3100. I noticed that a few days ago during discuss in Fredmirand forum compare FUJI and X1D, Pentax 645Z, same sensor but different low light performance. It is quite amazing consider price difference. 

 

However, l personally don't really care low ISO low light performance, that is not the territory for my MF usage. (If so, I might consider FUJI first. ) With enough light at base ISO, even S006 files are gorgeous.  Both DR and Resolution are nice to have but only part of consideration (after they are good enough) for my purchase decision. 

 

I have no doubt S3 will be in another level in term of IQ just like 100M 54X40 now and 44X33 sensor in the future. I am happy for those want pixel and can afford it.   

Edited September 20, 2018 by ZHNL

[helged]

Nice images, hard to judge at this size but I have no doubt it will be impressive viewing full resolution. 

 

Actually, based on AlanD's link, you will see that FUJI has about same low light performance as IQ3100. I noticed that a few days ago during discuss in Fredmirand forum compare FUJI and X1D, Pentax 645Z, same sensor but different low light performance. It is quite amazing consider price difference. 

 

However, l personally don't really care low ISO low light performance, that is not the territory for my MF usage. (If so, I might consider FUJI first. ) With enough light at base ISO, even S006 files are gorgeous.  Both DR and Resolution are nice to have but only part of consideration (after they are good enough) for my purchase decision. 

 

I have no doubt S3 will be in another level in term of IQ just like 100M 54X40 now and 44X33 sensor in the future. I am happy for those want pixel and can afford it.   

 

 

Well said. I love the S006 at low ISO. Surly, sensors with much 'better' specs are around. Which is fine. Surly, the S3 sensor will be a jump on the spec list. This will always be the case. Although - at least with the present technology - with (gradually) diminishing returns.

[kparseg]

I took my S007 and H6D on safari last week in Tanzania,..........I used my H6D 95% of the time. I went to Vietnam 2 months ago shooting street photography and landscape, I only too H6D.

 

Safari pictures will be posted later today

 

Neil

Neil, thank you for very nice images. Could you please comment on the dust and digital back, any issues with that?

[Guest]

Neil, thank you for very nice images. Could you please comment on the dust and digital back, any issues with that?

 

Will do mate , just give me a wee while while I finish off my printing

Neil

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[John McMaster]

the H6D has 16 bit colour the Leica is 12 I think,

Neil

 

Wrong, the Leica is 16 bit and I think the Sony chip is 14bit with extrapolation to 16 bit....

 

john