Leica CM / ML?/ New Leica Mirrorless Announcement

[lct]

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Really? All those buttons. Like a church organ

 

Good to have them if you know how to play those instruments. Most buttons are programmable so you can use them exactly where you need contrary to ... (fill in the blank) .

[jaapv]

I would hate to have a camera that I could only use in a religious setting.

[tgdinamo]

I think you missed the point of my post entirely and you only part quoted me of course.  The tiny run (someone said 400???) of luxury watches branded Leica doesn't interest me at all personally.  I don't think its credible that those would take any resources from camera or lens development? It's luxury brand profile promotion? My comment was that Leica Camera made no promise about this hypothetical CM at all. All of the speculation was generated entirely by posts on that rumour site (which sometimes seems to get it right and sometimes like here is completely wrong). Whether or not rumours are positive or negative for Leica I don't know. This one is just entirely fabrication and speculation not a leak of course.

That ought to be worth comment by those disappointed I would have thought

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think I have missed your point at all. However, on the internet forum where people are very emotional about cameras they want (and are willing to pay a lot of money to their favorite company to release new cameras) it is not realistic for the forum communitiy to self reflect and criticize itself for being wrong about the rumour, while at the same time there are $15k watches which probably noboby seems to want are such an easy target to make fun off. By the way, I have not seen a single post so far indicating someone here is actually thinking about buying one of those watches in spite of us all being big Leica fans and having on average more disposable income than people on most other forums.

[Jeff S]

Don’t know if anyone posted this, but Jono has a nice little review... with good pics.... of the new C-Lux, even if no CM...

 

http://www.slack.co.uk/leica-c-lux.html

 

Jeff

[tgdinamo]

Don’t know if anyone posted this, but Jono has a nice little review... with good pics.... of the new C-Lux, even if no CM...

 

http://www.slack.co.uk/leica-c-lux.html

 

Jeff

 

I saw that yesterday as well but to me the IQ does not look very appealing. Image quality cannot be be put in the same sentence as the CL (no Leica pop, and not very sharp), and even the D-Lux images (with much older sensor) seem to be clearly better than these C-Lux images.

[jonatdonuts]

It would be interesting to find out how many threads have kept its focus on photography before someone resorts to bringing up 1) their personal income, 2) supposedly high profile profession, 3) honorific titles, or 4) personal prejudice against bringing their luxury tools to poor countries in case it would render them vulnerable to the thieving hands of untrustworthy locals. 

 

So far, this thread has hit 3 out of 4 pretentious topics.

 

Every time it has happened a little bit of sick enters my mouth. 

[tsleica]

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A7 is my most used camera..w/M lenses..I want a rangefinder..but for under 1K for FF...it's really a no brainer..and it really is a simple camera to use once you get the hang of it..just focus ..and shoot..iso adjustment use the quick spinner wheel..fast and easy..no menu diving..same as with shutter adjuntment..it doesn't get easier than this..

Edited June 17, 2018 by tsleica

[tgdinamo]

It would be interesting to find out how many threads have kept its focus on photography before someone resorts to bringing up 1) their personal income, 2) supposedly high profile profession, 3) honorific titles, or 4) personal prejudice against bringing their luxury tools to poor countries in case it would render them vulnerable to the thieving hands of untrustworthy locals. 

 

So far, this thread has hit 3 out of 4 pretentious topics.

 

Every time it has happened a little bit of sick enters my mouth. 

 

You have a point. After reviewing I can see I hit one of those wrong topics in my recent post, and will try to do better in the future.

[Le Chef]

I would hate to have a camera that I could only use in a religious setting.

Apparently you can get Incense filters that can gradually filter out more and more of what you can see and add a smoky haze to what remains...

[TomB_tx]

A7 is my most used camera..w/M lenses..I want a rangefinder..but for under 1K for FF...it's really a no brainer..and it really is a simple camera to use once you get the hang of it..just focus ..and shoot..iso adjustment use the quick spinner wheel..fast and easy..no menu diving..same as with shutter adjuntment..it doesn't get easier than this..

I also find the A7 simple and satisfying, though I use my M10 much more. The corner smearing on the A7 does bother me with wide and normal M lenses, so I use it more with my old SLR manual focus lenses. It focuses very well without any focus aids, but the magnifier can really nail critical focus. Electronic first curtain gives quick response to the shutter release. Easy to meter the central spot and lock exposure (like an R4), so it makes a nice “R solution”. Set it up once and don’t mess with menus.

The size and weight are nice with a VC 35 1.4 or E mount 7 Artisans 35. If it had a sensor optimized for M lenses with built in lens corrections (6-bit sensing) it would be my main camera.

[tsleica]

The Kolari mod is supposed to pretty much eliminate edge smearing on M wides with the A7. I haven't done it yet though.

https://kolarivision.com/product/sony-a7-series-thin-filter-legacy-lens-upgrade/

Edited June 17, 2018 by tsleica

[Skyring]

Let's see. I've got a:

Q. Love it. Would love it even more with a tilt screen and interchangeable lenses.

109. Perfect travel camera. Complements the Q very well for all but super long range stuff.

C. Looks nice. Struggles when the going gets tough. On paper it's fabulous, in practice, not so much.

A7ii with M adaptor. Ouch. Yes, it does the job, but it is a joyless experience.

Olympus Pen-F with M adaptor. Looks great, performs well. Crop sensor so it gives me more range, but takes away on the IQ side. And removed any desire for the CL.

I'm guessing the C-Lux will be midway between C and 109 in operation and results. I won't be buying it.

My ideal Leica would be a Q that could take more lenses. It's such a kludge using Leica glass on the A7ii and Pen-F. Kind of fun to wield a camera that doesn't look like everybody else's, but a complete Leica solution would be nice. 

And no, I'm not going to buy an ugly SL, and my eyes have probably passed their rangefinder date.

[Martin B]

Jaapv

Have you ever tried a Sony A7xxxx.

Absolute nightmare menu system and the EVF is garbage.......... I certainly don’t think Leica care to much about Sony

 

Neil

 

I disagree - I am using in parallel Canon, Sony for digital plus Mamiya and Leica for analog. I love my A7R - I have nothing to complain about its EVF. The menu system takes time to get used to, but nice thing is that it offers a lot of choices - nobody forces me to use them all. But I have them available at least. Many Leica users have added a Sony MLC to the existing Leica gear. If somebody wants to make use of good Leica glass with higher MP sensor and more DR, there is only one option currently - unfortunately. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by Martin B

[lct]

The Kolari mod is supposed to pretty much eliminate edge smearing on M wides with the A7. I haven't done it yet though. [...]

 

Don't do it please there is so much demand that Kolari asks for one month to deliver the A73 mod.

[hoppyman]

The Luminous Landscape interview was with Dr Kaufmann in 2017 and the recent announcements related to new products as part of the Leitz Park III opening event. I am not aware that they mentioned a new L mount camera in those?
It seems that some people interpreted that year old remark as confirmation of the (now proven wrong) rumour. That rumour was what I raised as worthy of criticism.

Perhaps that year back Dr Kaufmann was referring to the CL which we already have? I bought one (for travel). I have had the SL for two years. Its my second most used camera.

I am looking forward to the availability of all of the so far announced Summicron SL lenses too. Currently available are the two zooms, the Summilux 50 (I think is too slow in AF and larger than I prefer) and the 75 with the 35 and 90 announced for second half this year. The performance of the 24-90 is excellent in my experience. 

I think my SL is larger, heavier and more angular, sharper in the body design than I prefer. I would prefer more dynamic range too. However I think the viewfinder and controls are excellent and the menu better even than the S has. I have no idea when a new model might be available. I was irritated when the price of the SL body dropped sharply after I got mine. However I have had it and used it for now 2 years.
I think an expectation of an army of stellar lenses arriving quickly was unrealistic. As other companies have done with initial body availability the adapters allow for using earlier mounts as the native lens range is built. 158 possible to use on the SL.
In the TL range I have the excellent 23 and the 18-56. I hope to get the new Summicron SL 35 this year, which I think should be dual purpose with the SL and CL. The M lenses with adapter have worked well when I tried those.

What are the new TL (APSC) lenses that are a must for you? You have or want to get the CL to use those?

Their marketing /communications team just never promised a new full frame L mount camera announcement for this month that they have been criticised for not delivering. 

I don't think we can completely absolve Leica's marketing / communications team on this one. 

 

The L mount has great potential; held back only by its relatively sparse range of lenses. I think a lot of early adopters bought into the L systems with the hope that Leica would soon release an army of stellar lenses, which is after all one of the primary reasons why we fell in love with Leica in the first place. I suspect there are also a fair number of other photographers looking to invest in one of those systems once they see the lenses they want and need. 

 

The Luminous Landscape interview which showed Leica teasing the expanding L-mount potential on the 14th June 2018 appears to have raised a lot of people's aspirations: finally, an expanded range of lenses and / or more compact FF body were going to be delivered. The CM rumours certainly didn't help and confused the situation further, but the reference to the L-mount was clear to all. 

 

What we got was an L-watch.

 

I very much appreciate Leica's vision, direction, and how it has handled the M line up to the excellent M10 (special editions aside). And the Q is marvellous. But serious questions need to be asked of its marketing / communications team. It seems unnecessary to build up people's hopes only to bring them down, especially for the early adopters. And this isn't the first time that marketing has done this, with the 'mini-M' farce, the canon/sofort incident, and the ambiguous announcement of the Leica + Huawei 'co-design' partnership. Although that partnership is now proving to be very successful with Huawei nailing down excellent phones - political controversy aside. 

 

Whether you agree with this or not, there is still much work to be done with the L mount system. A new camera body may not be necessary at this time, but new lenses are certainly a must, particularly for the APSC line. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by hoppyman

[Jeff S]

Perhaps that year back Dr Kaufmann was referring to the CL which we already have?

 

No, the CL was even mentioned in the interview (just before the 19 minute mark), so it was likely recorded in late 2017. Dr. Kaufmann never specified the opening event, stating only June 2018 when we would see more of the L mount potential. Technically still a couple of weeks to go. I won’t hold my breath, as Leica delays are notorious, but we’ll eventually know if his comment has merit in principle if not timing.

 

Jeff

Edited June 18, 2018 by Jeff S

[bags27]

Still time in June....

 

And Rumors also mentioned that at the same time Leica would map out 5 additional L mount lenses to be released over the next 18 months. Since the big zooms are already out, these will be primes. It just makes sense that there will be a new camera soon, whether a smaller form S2 or a “CM”, to stimulate sales of these lenses.

[dkCambridgeshire]

Still time in June....

 

And Rumors also mentioned that at the same time Leica would map out 5 additional L mount lenses to be released over the next 18 months. Since the big zooms are already out, these will be primes. It just makes sense that there will be a new camera soon, whether a smaller form S2 or a “CM”, to stimulate sales of these lenses.

 

 

 

Again, given the fact that Jono has hinted that the rumoured CM, as hyped up / sexed up by forum members, is not in the pipeline, then 'soon' likely will not happen. Furthermore, even an announcement of something in the future could be unlikely - given the need not to divulge future FF mirrorless plans to e.g. Nikon and Canon … both of whom allegedly have prototypes near to production.

 

dunk  

[ropo54]

My guess: the "new" L mount camera is going to be a version of a slimmed down SL with more megapixels.

 

That would make the SL line more versatile in allowing  better use of the existing TL lenses, which could then render say 24mp images (instead of 10mp now when used on the SL) AND provide for that lighter package to carry around that most people would prefer.  Essentially, a merging of the SL and CL line camera systems. 

 

Still, the issue for me with the existing SL is not so much the size/weight of the SL body, but rather that of the AF lenses.  Even using the existing L mount lenses on my CL leaves me with a heavy/bulky camera to carry about.  

 

It would seem that the focus for the vast majority wanting 'improvement' should be on Leica coming out with lighter AF lenses and a higher MP sensor for professionals wanting more detail.

Edited June 18, 2018 by ropo54

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[dkCambridgeshire]

My guess: the "new" L mount camera is going to be a version of a slimmed down SL with more megapixels.

 

That would make the SL line more versatile in allowing  better use of the existing TL lenses, which could then render say 24mp images (instead of 10mp now when used on the SL) AND provide for that lighter package to carry around that most people would prefer.  Essentially, a merging of the SL and CL line camera systems. 

 

Still, the issue for me with the existing SL is not so much the size/weight of the SL body, but rather that of the AF lenses.  Even using the existing L mount lenses on my CL leaves me with a heavy/bulky camera to carry about.  

 

It would seem that the focus for the vast majority wanting 'improvement' should be on Leica coming out with lighter AF lenses and a higher MP sensor for professionals wanting more detail.

 

 

 

Both the SL prime lenses and SL zoom lenses share the 'Dual Synchro Drive' AF system which adds to their diameters. Future SL lenses including those already promised will likely continue to use this common component - thus less bulk for future lenses is unlikely … they'll probably always be relatively 'fat'. 

 

https://uk.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-SL/SL-Lenses/Vario-Lenses/APO-VARIO-ELMARIT-SL-90-280

 

http://blog.leica-camera.com/2018/01/15/new-summicron-sl-lenses/

 

dunk 

Edited June 18, 2018 by dkCambridgeshire