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M7 under warranty and pinholes in shutter curtain


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Hello fellow Leica shooters, 

 

I am new in this forum. I got a gift of  a Leica M7 in December 2017 which was faulty from the day 1 that I've bought it. The film was jamming at certain point and they blamed me for incorrectly inserting film (which later proven not true). After dragging me through this process I was given a replacement copy in August 2017. Developing films in December, I noticed light leaks in every frame of the film and I then noticed a hole in the shutter curtain. I have submitted the Leica for repair along with my warranty card, but they they have sent me an email sending me an invoice in the height of 1000 euros or having a choice to have it sent back unrepaired.  

 

Because you have more experience dealing with the Leica, I would like to ask for a couple of questions. 

 

a) Has anybody dealt with this problem before while having warranty? Did they ever solve this problem as a part of warranty? 

 

 

B) The hole is just one and really minor, do you think like painting over it with the liquid PVC (as suggested in other thread) would be a safe option?

 

c) Are there any people in Europe who are able to repair Leica's for less than the Wetzlar?  

 

At this point I am sick of Leica, it is just not worth it. I wanted to shoot film on a good camera but so far after all those troubles with the first and second Leica, I have only managed to do like 5 rolls of film so far. I am asking you for advice on what to do. My preferred option would be to just like paint over with the special glue and let it properly dry, because at the moment I don't have spare 1000 euros to have it repaired.

 

Thank you, people

 

 

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Normally Leica is quite accomodating in warranty matters. I assume that the discussion in this case is about the cause of the hole in the curtain. Was it there from the beginning or is it user-caused damage? Always a frustrating situation. Whom are you talking to? Your local importer or the folks in Wetzlar? That can make quite a difference.

 

Anyway, analog Leicas can be repaired by a number of indepedent repair shops, there is a list (incomplete) of trusted repairers in the forum.

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/leica-repair-specialists/

 

A small hole in a shutter curtain can be fixed by careful applicaton of a little drop of rubber compound. I would consult one of the independents if I were you. You want the repair to last for many years.

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Thank you for your answers.

The camera was sent through the official Leica Firenze store to Wetzlar to be repaired, but I thought it will be done with the warranty because, I don't know how and when the hole had been created.

I don't recall leaving the camera in the sun. I moved to Florence and I would go and shoot on Sundays when it was really sunny, it is my aesthetic that I pursue in photography. I contacted the Leica Vienna branch where I had bought the camera. They told me that the burns occur when the camera sun is shinning to the lens directly and that is a very common problem based on the threads in forums. But because they told me it is a very common problem and it develops quickly, I do not know why I am not protected by the warranty.

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If the hole was caused by burning from leavig the camera pointing to direct sunlight for a while, then it wouldn't be a warranty repair. I'm guessing that's what Leica's view of the problem is.

 

Was the hole present when you received the camera or did it appear more recently? Pinholes can also happen through wear but you'd be looking at many many years of use, so it's almost certainly a burn hole. The question is did you cause it or was it caused before you bought the camera?

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Well I received a new camera which did not have problems. But after two rolls I started to have a problem, I thought it was a development problem, because it appeared like a bubble. And that day even my 120 films were botched because of the developer. I was not aware that there exists such a problem as a burn hole in the curtains, I chose Leica after using mainly Contax and Rolleiflex, and none of them has a textile curtain.

 

I think, it might have been caused by me but I don't know when because I don't leave it on the sun.However, when I am shooting I don't put the cap on as I am passing around the city, and I like shooting with wide apertures. I didn't know I really did not think of the power of the Sun, I mainly cared about protecting the lens from the sides and I thought having the hood attached was enough. I was wrong apparently.

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Yep, wide apertures without lens cap will burn curtain and quick. And it is yours fault. Not Leica.

It took me 30 seconds to download M7 manual and another 30 to scroll German pages in supposed to be English manual.

At very fist page once language become regular :) here it was:

 

When a lens is mounted, the shutter must be protected from intensive frontal sunlight, e.g. by
attaching the lens cap or by keeping the camera in the shade or in its case. If this is not observed,
the lenses’ magnifying glass effect, which increases with larger apertures, could cause
damage to the shutter curtain. With large apertures, this can happen quickly.

 

In the shade, not with shade on.

 

Sorry, to put it this way, Leica is very good camera, but you know now it is not "youknownowfromwhom" proofed.  

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Maybe Leica could introduce a replacement line that uses the metallic vertical shutter.

.

There would be a few trade offs like a higher sync speed an shorter fastest speed, but the sound would be like an R8 and it would be an expensive redesign. Not to mention the cries of anguish from the traditionalists.
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There would be a few trade offs like a higher sync speed an shorter fastest speed, but the sound would be like an R8 and it would be an expensive redesign. Not to mention the cries of anguish from the traditionalists.

 

To me Leica traditionalists are those who insist on Leica label where Sony A7 been the same, original and  for less. :)

 

Canon P has exactly same shutter speeds, and same sync speed (1/55), but metal curtains. 

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I have submitted the Leica for repair along with my warranty card, but they they have sent me an email sending me an invoice in the height of 1000 euros or having a choice to have it sent back unrepaired. 

 

 

This isn't the first time I've raised this issue (and I seem to be the only one bothered) but the real scandal here IMO is that the Leica service department now routinely want to charge €1,000 for even the most straightforward of repairs. There seems to be a policy in place that all film camera repairs should be only be undertaken if accompanied by an €800 CLA and I suspect that this is what is being proposed here. There was a time not that long ago where Leica factory service was reasonably commensurate with the costs that independent repairers would charge for routine jobs like shutter curtain replacement and RF realignment but now the costs (or at least the cost when combined with a mandatory CLA) are approaching or exceeding the cost of a decent secondhand M6 or M7. It is one thing to consider an €800 full service for a much loved camera that might be thirty years old but quite another to consider paying that for a camera that was bought (in the OP's case) three months ago.

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This isn't the first time I've raised this issue (and I seem to be the only one bothered) but the real scandal here IMO is that the Leica service department now routinely want to charge €1,000 for even the most straightforward of repairs. There seems to be a policy in place that all film camera repairs should be only be undertaken if accompanied by an €800 CLA and I suspect that this is what is being proposed here. There was a time not that long ago where Leica factory service was reasonably commensurate with the costs that independent repairers would charge for routine jobs like shutter curtain replacement and RF realignment but now the costs (or at least the cost when combined with a mandatory CLA) are approaching or exceeding the cost of a decent secondhand M6 or M7. It is one thing to consider an €800 full service for a much loved camera that might be thirty years old but quite another to consider paying that for a camera that was bought (in the OP's case) three months ago.

Back in the 1970s or early '80s I sent my LeicaflexSL to Leica N.J. to get the light meter adjusted, and they said they only did FULL SERVICE on cameras, so I went ahead for the full CLA. It came back working fine, except the light meter was just as non-linear as before (needed a new CdS cell). I gave up on Leica service then, and later bought an R4 to go with my M4, with the SL in storage. Much later I found DAG, who still had replacement CdS cells, and would just fix that issue.

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This isn't the first time I've raised this issue (and I seem to be the only one bothered) but the real scandal here IMO is that the Leica service department now routinely want to charge €1,000 for even the most straightforward of repairs. There seems to be a policy in place that all film camera repairs should be only be undertaken if accompanied by an €800 CLA and I suspect that this is what is being proposed here. There was a time not that long ago where Leica factory service was reasonably commensurate with the costs that independent repairers would charge for routine jobs like shutter curtain replacement and RF realignment but now the costs (or at least the cost when combined with a mandatory CLA) are approaching or exceeding the cost of a decent secondhand M6 or M7. It is one thing to consider an €800 full service for a much loved camera that might be thirty years old but quite another to consider paying that for a camera that was bought (in the OP's case) three months ago.

Getting upset at feeling overcharged is so fruitless. Just take your business elsewhere. I'm sure that any good Leica repair shop is able to replace a shutter curtain. Within the EU, use KameraService, or any other recommended repair facility.

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/leica-repair-specialists/

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Maybe Leica could introduce a replacement line that uses the metallic vertical shutter.

.

 

Hello Pico,

 

1 of the things that have made mechanical "M" cameras so durable & so reliable over the years is the big, overbuilt, slow moving shutter, made with well proven & reliable technology that pretty much lasts forever with a minimum of care & a minimum of maintenance. They may not want to change that.

 

Interestingly, there may have been more varieties of range/viewfinder mechanisms in the various mechanical "M" cameras over the years than there have been variations in shutter designs & shutter construction. 

 

Many years ago, not long after the 1st person walked on the Moon, I found that there was a pinhole in the shutter. I took it to Leitz who simply put some sort of goppish stuff over the hole. It has always been "cosmetically challenged" but none the less, it has always been reliable & to date has never needed further attention.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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  • 2 weeks later...

In my opinion this points to bad service by the seller, who ought to have informed you of this.

 

Well I received a new camera which did not have problems. But after two rolls I started to have a problem, I thought it was a development problem, because it appeared like a bubble. And that day even my 120 films were botched because of the developer. I was not aware that there exists such a problem as a burn hole in the curtains, I chose Leica after using mainly Contax and Rolleiflex, and none of them has a textile curtain.

 

I think, it might have been caused by me but I don't know when because I don't leave it on the sun.However, when I am shooting I don't put the cap on as I am passing around the city, and I like shooting with wide apertures. I didn't know I really did not think of the power of the Sun, I mainly cared about protecting the lens from the sides and I thought having the hood attached was enough. I was wrong apparently.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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