henning Posted December 2, 2017 Share #161 Posted December 2, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) (the Otus bokeh does get affected by the fact that it is not used on its native mount): https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-GGCRrg/ Why would the mount (sensor) affect the bokeh? As long as the resolution of the sensor is reasonably high, which sensor shouldn't make any difference; the image is created on a plane by a lens whose bokeh characteristics are fully determined before the image gets to the sensor plane. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 Hi henning, Take a look here Leica Noctilux-M f1.25 75 mm introduced. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
laowai_ Posted December 2, 2017 Share #162 Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) Why would the mount (sensor) affect the bokeh? As long as the resolution of the sensor is reasonably high, which sensor shouldn't make any difference; the image is created on a plane by a lens whose bokeh characteristics are fully determined before the image gets to the sensor plane. One could of course argue that not the lens mount but the sensor (micro lens array, cover glass, low pass filter, absorption characteristics of the semiconductor material itself, etc.) is part of the optical imaging system. If this component of the optical system had any influence on the bokeh of the actual image you might be able to notice it by comparing images taken with the same lense on different types of cameras and keeping everything else the same. Edited December 2, 2017 by laowai_ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 2, 2017 Share #163 Posted December 2, 2017 I haven’t really been able to find a good answer as to why optical performance is affected when a lens is mounted on an adapter but I can see it. The bokeh of the Otus looks less smooth and less pleasing on the SL than on the 5DS R to my eyes. Perhaps this provides an answer: https://www.popphoto.com/gear/2014/06/how-do-lens-adapters-affect-cameras-image-quality Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 2, 2017 Share #164 Posted December 2, 2017 By following the links, one can find the source material for that article, and some related discussions.... https://wordpress.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/06/the-glass-in-the-path-sensor-stacks-and-adapted-lenses/ https://wordpress.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/09/there-is-no-free-lunch-episode-763-lens-adapters/ http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/10/two-reasons.html Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarav Posted December 2, 2017 Share #165 Posted December 2, 2017 This lens would probably be a masterpiece, but to me is a nonsense: E67 filter-thread lens in a M-Camera??? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 2, 2017 Share #166 Posted December 2, 2017 This lens would probably be a masterpiece, but to me is a nonsense: E67 filter-thread lens in a M-Camera??? Same filter thread as Tri-Elmar 16-18-21/4 i guess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 2, 2017 Share #167 Posted December 2, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) By following the links, one can find the source material for that article, and some related discussions.... [...] I cannot confirm how it works with 35mm FF but with LF placing a filter behind the lens shifts the focus at about 1/2 the thickness of the filter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarav Posted December 2, 2017 Share #168 Posted December 2, 2017 Same filter thread as Tri-Elmar 16-18-21/4 i guess. mmmh..probably with an adapter, but I never owned that lens and I doubt it's as large as this nonsense-lens. If this lens was created for an SL-Body only it'd be an amazing-Lens, with capital L, but it's a lens for an M-camera...to me, is way too big. When I use the Nocti 0.95 I feel its 60mm scares people...I couldn't have a lens larger than that one. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henning Posted December 3, 2017 Share #169 Posted December 3, 2017 I haven’t really been able to find a good answer as to why optical performance is affected when a lens is mounted on an adapter but I can see it. The bokeh of the Otus looks less smooth and less pleasing on the SL than on the 5DS R to my eyes. Perhaps this provides an answer: https://www.popphoto.com/gear/2014/06/how-do-lens-adapters-affect-cameras-image-quality That article, and others relating to cover glass thickness are of course quite true, and it's easily shown with fairly basic optical diagrams how this happens. The problems that different cover glass thicknesses cause is due to the steep angle of incidence that non-retrofocus and minimally retrofocus wide-angle lenses create in the corners of the frame. I have about 25 Leica lenses as well as a Sony A7rII and some m43 cameras, and very few Leica lenses are anywhere near as 'good' (regarding corner performance) on the Sony and Olympus cameras as they are on the Leicas, so I'm quite aware of the issue, as well as quite aware of its optical cause. Bokeh, in the first instance is not a edge and corner of frame effect, but an overall effect that, as I mentioned, is created by the lens before the imaging rays hit the sensor stack; secondly the angle of incidence problem does not occur with the Otus lens because the exit pupil is quite far from the image plane and is an SLR lens and thirdly bokeh is not a characteristic that is particularly affected by the angle of incidence/cover glass/corner smearing in any case. I do not have any Otus lens but I have quite a few other Canon, Nikon and Leica SLR lenses. I will try some appropriate ones to see if their bokeh characteristics are different on different sensors. It goes against the optical principles that I'm familiar with, but I shall be prepared to be astounded. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted December 3, 2017 Share #170 Posted December 3, 2017 Anything which changes the optical path has the potential to change the resultant image. So, sensor and associated cover can do so, obviously. The mount and or adapter, on the other hand is simply a (sophisticated) tube and provided it isn't actually blocking the optical path and thus disrupting/changing it, will have no effect whatsoever (assuming it is engineered accurately). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted December 3, 2017 Share #171 Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) I haven’t really been able to find a good answer as to why optical performance is affected when a lens is mounted on an adapter but I can see it. The bokeh of the Otus looks less smooth and less pleasing on the SL than on the 5DS R to my eyes. Perhaps this provides an answer: https://www.popphoto.com/gear/2014/06/how-do-lens-adapters-affect-cameras-image-quality Anything which changes the optical path has the potential to change the resultant image. So, sensor and associated cover can do so, obviously. The mount and or adapter, on the other hand is simply a (sophisticated) tube and provided it isn't actually blocking the optical path and thus disrupting/changing it, will have no effect whatsoever (assuming it is engineered accurately). Well put. Edited December 3, 2017 by MarkP Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted December 3, 2017 Share #172 Posted December 3, 2017 Reflections off the sensor and rear lens will be affected by the mount and adapter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup de foudre Posted December 3, 2017 Share #173 Posted December 3, 2017 Sorry Paul - I only realised it was being announced yesterday. But I’ll have no criticisms of the 75 ‘cron (one of my all time favorites!) I’ll talk to some people and perhaps I’ll do a write up over the next week or so Comparison photos, Jono, you know we want them! 75mm -- Summicron vs Summilux vs Noctilux 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 4, 2017 Share #174 Posted December 4, 2017 I’ve heard that this lens is so difficult to make, only four out of ten are good enough to be sold. The rest are scrapped. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted December 4, 2017 Share #175 Posted December 4, 2017 I’ve heard that this lens is so difficult to make, only four out of ten are good enough to be sold. The rest are scrapped.I think that is bad rumour. Leica is better in controlling their machining processes. Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted December 4, 2017 Share #176 Posted December 4, 2017 I have a suspicion that the prices for 75mm Summiluxes are again on the way up. I have one so I shouldn't really be too dismayed (it will be underinsured now though ) but this does seem to be a rather odd side effect of Leica's "reintroductions" ..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 4, 2017 Share #177 Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) I think that is bad rumour. Leica is better in controlling their machining processes. Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk Don't let me laugh...Why are so many lenses sent back to the factory to calibrate? And does every lens perform as stated? see: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/278267-any-thoughts-on-the-behavior-of-this-super-elmarit-24mm-asph/ Edited December 4, 2017 by Paulus 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 4, 2017 Share #178 Posted December 4, 2017 I’ve heard that this lens is so difficult to make, only four out of ten are good enough to be sold. The rest are scrapped. if I'm glad if the quality control is even better than with the 75 Summicron. To many of them leave the factory being faulty IMHO. I tried 6 lenses until now , non were ok IMHO. For this price it's allright for me if Leica only sells one of ten, as long as there are no issues with it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 4, 2017 Share #179 Posted December 4, 2017 It’s from someone who works in the assembly of the lens. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 4, 2017 Share #180 Posted December 4, 2017 Another 'statement' lens which most likely intended to show just how good Leica designs can be; no doubt it will do. Given the price though I will stick with the Summilux ! Agreed. A new Summilux 75 would’ve been just that bit more compact and affordable (in relative terms) to be much more popular. This will be a trophy piece for the very few who can afford and justify it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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