7artisans 50mm F1.1 Leica M Mount

[rramesh]

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The criticism peaked in the Fifties. Regarding its place among economies yours is a general statement and ignores the many hazardous foods, building materials, and utter crap they have sold. It is true that inferior lenses have a certain charm. Go for it.

 

Pico, let's not compare a $4K+ product to a $400 one and immediate trash it for not being up to expectations. You have the wrong expectation comparing a bicycle to a Lamborghini.

 

As a $400 product it is new and works surprising well. It's cheap because there is probably minimal R&D as it is based on a time tested Sonnar design which has limitations, but it has been widely used in lenses in the past. Back focus and other issues are inherent within in Sonanr design.

 

Yes, you might get an older Leica or Zeiss at that price but you would be hard pressed to get it without age blemishes. 

 

And yes, China still has counterfeits and fakes or poor quality, albeit it is a maturing country with tightening regulations. 

 

By the way, you might want to take a high speed train ride in China and maybe compare it with that in the US.

Edited July 21, 2017 by rramesh

[caugustin]

Hi to All,

 

As promised, I'll try to post some pictures taken with the new 7artisans f: 1,1 lens, mainly wide open, except two or three images with aperture f: 5,6.

In summary, the first impressions are :

 - Strong vignetting (only with one nd filter)

 - Strong flare and blur in the area outside the central image circle

 - Strong flare and softness of the image when in full aperture

 - Image acceptable, when closed down more than f: 5,6

Conclusion :

Interesting to have, but with great limitations

For the price, we can not ask more.

 

Best regards

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/117242615@N06/albums

 

 

I looked at your Flickr photos and find the results quite pleasing. The bokeh at open aperture reminds me of my old OM Zuiko 1.4/50 wide open (on a Sony A7), and the vignetting is in the same ballpark. Not on par with Leica lenses, but not bad either. I could see this one as an addition for the Leica MP and for the Sony A7 – that is what makes this lense so interesting (it is RF coupled, unlike most contenders in the F1.1 realm).

Edited July 21, 2017 by caugustin

[jcblxpt]

Hi to All,

 

As promised, I'll try to post some pictures taken with the new 7artisans f: 1,1 lens, mainly wide open, except two or three images with aperture f: 5,6.

In summary, the first impressions are :

 - Strong vignetting (only with one nd filter)

 - Strong flare and blur in the area outside the central image circle

 - Strong flare and softness of the image when in full aperture

 - Image acceptable, when closed down more than f: 5,6

Conclusion :

Interesting to have, but with great limitations

For the price, we can not ask more.

 

Best regards

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/117242615@N06/albums

HI. Good morning to all,

 

Just one more extra,

Obviously the 7artisans cannot be compared with leica glass (cron / lux), and in my opinion neither with the Voigtlander Nokton, which i think it's far away better, both in Image and construction quality. But again, we get what we pay.

 

Greetings to all and have a good weekend with lots of photos.

 

João

[pgk]

There are many great products that come from China. Do note that it is among the world's top economies today.

 

Yes, this lens is cheap. It does not use expensive or exotic materials in it's manufacturing process. But that does not have to equate with poor quality.

 

I suppose that the base problem here is using a conventional design to produce a very fast lens. The result is predictable in that its performance will be on a par with similar and far older designs. However modern manufacturing means that its price is low. So there will be many who can legitimately criticise its performance and they will be correct if that is such a lens is compared with more exotic, modern designs which cost vastly more. That said I think that people need to be honest and think about whether a new manufacturer should go straight to a modern, esoteric, high performance design given that they have no reputation, or try something conventional at a price point where its failings are acceptable. As lens design and manufacture progress in China I expect to see better lenses appear which are no longer cheap and cheerful. You have got to start somewhere and high end is probably not a good place to start.

[jcblxpt]

I suppose that the base problem here is using a conventional design to produce a very fast lens. The result is predictable in that its performance will be on a par with similar and far older designs. However modern manufacturing means that its price is low. So there will be many who can legitimately criticise its performance and they will be correct if that is such a lens is compared with more exotic, modern designs which cost vastly more. That said I think that people need to be honest and think about whether a new manufacturer should go straight to a modern, esoteric, high performance design given that they have no reputation, or try something conventional at a price point where its failings are acceptable. As lens design and manufacture progress in China I expect to see better lenses appear which are no longer cheap and cheerful. You have got to start somewhere and high end is probably not a good place to start.

 

 

I totally agree with your comment, Paul.

[rramesh]

I suppose that the base problem here is using a conventional design to produce a very fast lens. The result is predictable in that its performance will be on a par with similar and far older designs. However modern manufacturing means that its price is low. So there will be many who can legitimately criticise its performance and they will be correct if that is such a lens is compared with more exotic, modern designs which cost vastly more. That said I think that people need to be honest and think about whether a new manufacturer should go straight to a modern, esoteric, high performance design given that they have no reputation, or try something conventional at a price point where its failings are acceptable. As lens design and manufacture progress in China I expect to see better lenses appear which are no longer cheap and cheerful. You have got to start somewhere and high end is probably not a good place to start.

Agreed. It's all a function of volume, margin, price and performance. There are many users of m43 and mirrorless full frame cameras who are looking for lenses sub-1k. While Leica and Zeiss lenses are the best, they are expensive. Manufacturers have seen the success of CV and the booming resale market for older vintage lenses. Start low risk, with minimal R&D, modern manufacturing equipment, and over time evolve with innovative R&D. They have done it with other electronics equipment.

 

And soon, we will see 3D printers being used to produce lenses.

[MarkP]

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I think Ramchand makes a good point.  We are all very desensitised to 'real world' lens prices here in Leicaland.

 

Even the ZM and to some extent the CV M-mount lenses cost more than what most people would spend on an entry-level camera and lens kit, certainly for a fast lens.

 

I am not being patronising but I hope all new entrant companies to the M-mount lens (and camera) system do well as long as their products are well made and value for their price point.  Keeps life in the system and accessibility for those who couldn't otherwise dream of buying Leica.

Edited July 21, 2017 by MarkP

[FrozenInTime]

Looking through last weekends films:

I'm seeing a very good focus hit rate @f/1.1 under 2m/6ft , but 100% missed focus at over 3m/10ft .

For all of the longer shots focus falls closer than set.

It's not my RF as the 90mm summicron shots are spot on at similar distances.

[jaapv]

Or an invitation for constant fiddling.

[james.liam]

...or including a 5¢ screwdriver instead, was a way to dodge the tedium of sending out (any) properly calibrated lenses altogether and save the cash.

 

At that price-point, somethings got to give...

Edited July 24, 2017 by james.liam

[pgk]

I've just been chatting with a photographer who spent two days 'calibrating' a Japanese built mega-zoom for his dSLR .......

[pico]

What I do really like though is the ability to alter the focus point with the user adjustable screw.

 

You might enjoy looking at the MS Optical Sonnetar 50mm f/1.1. It has a

ring at the rear which can be turned to adjust coma or the nature of aberrations

depending upon the focus distance.

 

(Pay no attention to the Sonnetar on eBay Germany now for EUR 3,800.00.

It is prototype # 000, supposedly a collectors item.)

Edited July 24, 2017 by pico

[james.liam]

I've just been chatting with a photographer who spent two days 'calibrating' a Japanese built mega-zoom for his dSLR .......

 

A 20-element zoom with AF and bells + whistles? Can't excuse that either and even less so with a rudimentary 50mm lens.

Edited July 24, 2017 by james.liam

[pgk]

A 20-element zoom with AF and bells + whistles? Can't excuse that either and even less so with a rudimentary 50mm lens.

 

Simple choice. Spend a lot and get (supposedly) a fully calibrated lens, or, spend a lot less and DIY. In this case the DIY was worth several thousand pound apparently - result is a satisfied photographer. Can't really argue with that.

[Ecar]

A 20-element zoom with AF and bells + whistles? Can't excuse that either and even less so with a rudimentary 50mm lens.

 

OK, let's take another example: focus on the equally "rudimentary" Zeiss Sonnar 50/1.5 ZM is factory-calibrated for either f/2.8 (initial batches) or f/1.5 (most recent batches, it seems).

You can have this behaviour changed at no charge, but need to send the lens to Zeiss - no DIY. And no matter what, depending on the aperture you use, it will either be spot on or shift focus somewhat - the joys of a fast Sonnar... It's not ideal, but users, myself included, have learned to lean backward or forward - or slightly turn the focus ring - to compensate. Yet, it is 3-4 times more expensive than the (faster) 7artisans lens...

Now, to be entirely honest, I prefer the rendering of the Zeiss, but at 350$, the 7artisans is a great deal - and I can adjust it myself...

FWIW, my copy only had some very mild (less than 1cm) back-focus wide open at minimum distance, all other distances being spot on or thereabouts. So much so that I haven't yet felt the urge to take to the screwdriver.

I'm happy to concede that IQ is nothing to write home about and that there may be sample variation and other niggles (something's gotta give, right?), but so far the copy I received has exceeded my (low) initial expectations. Only time will tell if it ends up disintegrating with prolonged usage...

[honcho]

Dslr AF calibration is a necessary part of using dslr's.  As with cleaning sensors, there are two ways of looking at it: 

 

1. It's required routine maintenance and to correct some misinformation above, af calibration is not a once-only-and-forget-it exercise, it is a regular good housekeeping requirement!

2. It's a time-consuming pita.

 

Both points are major factors in my decision to switch from being a career-long Nikon user to Fuji X for wedding and portrait work from December 2016.  Every Nikon dslr I have ever used that can be calibrated has needed regular af calibration.

[LucisPictor]

I have just received an email that said that the lens is currently not available since customs - as they claimed - has stopped export and will keep the packages for an unknown time!

 

They will tell me as soon as they get hold of the lenses again. Let's see if then the prices will miraculously have risen...

[David Millstein]

 I bought the lens because I was interested to find out what it offered for the price. Here's what it offers - very decent results, reasonable build quality, six bit encoded, reasonably sharp edge to edge at all apertures, no flaring that I can detect, reasonably accurate color rendition, and very fast. As for any service or warranty problems, let me remind you it costs $379.00. How much do you need to be concerned about service or warranty at that price? After all, a very used Leica lens will cost three or four times that much and comes with no warranty and a potential service charge that would easily exceed just the cost of the 7artisans lens. I'm glad I bought it, I like using it, and isn't that all that really matters?

[welshtog]

I've ordered one, just because I want to try it.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Robert E]

Well, a lot of different opinions on this one indeed. I just purchased one and can't wait for it to arrive and test it out. So far the reviews I've read have been much more positive than the Iberit lenses, which are even more expensive. Keep in mind they are both made in China, but then so are some of the Sony, Nikon and Fuji lenses that have great ratings.

Sure, some will say why buy a Lecia and then use a China made lens on it, but I say why not, if you can't afford the Leica counterpart for 10x the price. At least you would be out there taking photographs.