Leica Ends Free Sensor Replacement for M9/Monochrom Bodies

[rafikiphoto]

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For whatever it's worth, I sent them my M9 with corrosion, and they returned it after denying that there was corrosion.  A day later they presumably accepted that there was corrosion and allowed an 'upgrade'.

 

Did you then also have the alternative for a new sensor?

[pedaes]

What do you think are our chances

to take "Sensorgate" over to https://www.change.org/ ?

 

Do you have a camera with a problem? 

[M9reno]

Did you then also have the alternative for a new sensor?

Yes, but for me a new corrosion-prone sensor was not a real fix.  And I doubted that a new, corrosion-proof sensor would be developed.  So I part-exchanged for an M240.

[Rus]

For me, the bottomline is: If in 2014 Leica promised that they would cover the cost for   both   the new sensor and the technicians' fees, then this time they've at least reneged on that latter half of the original promise.

 

And for the owners of the affected cameras the differentiation between contributing towards (part of) the cost of the new sensor and towards the technicians' fee certainly does not make much real difference.

 

That said, I am grateful to Jaapv for taking the time to talk to Leica and obtaining this explanation. Although Leica's clarification on this minor technicality does still sound like a rather shoddy effort on their part to wiggle out of the PR disaster they are currently in. 

 

While the financial reason of this unpopular decision is perhaps not in itself inexcusable, especially considering that Leica is a comparatively small manufacturer, I can't help but imagine that they'd probably have fared much better had they reached out to their customers via a crowdfunding campaign instead of gleaning money from loyal customers in such an (at best) opaque and (at its worst) underhanded manner. Or is Leica in such dire straits financially now? 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Rus

[Go Figure]

I have no idea of the legal side of it, just speaking hypothetically. 

The main idea is to make Leica understand

that the replacement of a faulty camera part can not be declared a goodwill action

nor be sold back to it's owner as a payable service later on.

It also should make them realize that making a goodwill statement 

is a promise that they can not backtrack on a three months notice.

(barely a year after finding a workable solution)

[johnwolf]

I don't. The issue is with the product, not with the owner.

 

Except for federally mandated auto recalls, I can't think of another instance where a vendor would offer free repairs of a product owned by someone who is not their customer. At least in the USA. 

 

Leica replaced my second-hand MM sensor, but I would have found it reasonable for them to not do so. After all, they got nothing from me.

 

John 

Edited May 17, 2017 by johnwolf

[jaapv]

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Except for federally mandated auto recalls, I can't think of another instance where a vendor would offer free repairs of a product owned by someone who is not their customer.  

 

Leica replaced my second-hand MM sensor, but I would have found it reasonable for them to not do so. After all, they got nothing from me. 

 

John 

In the USA. In European consumer law it is illegal to restrict guarantees to original purchasers. A guaranty is on a product. Leica is a European company under German jurisdiction.

[jaapv]

Especially since they continued to sell cameras they knew to be defective. The good faith commitment was vital to that proposition. 

 

The commitment was made in 2014. All cameras sold after 2014 are not yet 5 years old, thus exempt.

[jdlaing]

I look at this a little differently.

 

The Leica warranty is three years. That's already two years longer than the rest of the pack.

They agreed to fix the sensor even if out of warranty and even if you weren't the original owner.

 

Anybody that buys an electronic device that figures it will last decades is probably misinformed.

[Go Figure]

Are class-action lawsuits possible in Germany? If so, this seems like a good candidate for one.

As far as I know they are not.

Hence my approach to bring this to change.org !

[Rus]

I look at this a little differently.

 

The Leica warranty is three years. That's already two years longer than the rest of the pack.

They agreed to fix the sensor even if out of warranty and even if you weren't the original owner.

 

Anybody that buys an electronic device that figures it will last decades is probably misinformed.

I think most of us will agree on the point about the shorter lifespan of electronic device, which is also why most of us would be willing to pay for it if the electronic components of the camera need to be repaired or replaced. Hell we are willing to pay for replacements or reparations on other non-electronic parts of the cameras too as the product ages. 

 

But with the M9 it is a defect in the product, which I think is a different thing from the normal life expectancy of electronic products. And surely this should be dealt with differently than normal repairs. 

[jdlaing]

I think most of us will agree on the point about the shorter lifespan of electronic device, which is also why most of us would be willing to pay for it if the electronic components of the camera need to be repaired or replaced. Hell we are willing to pay for replacements or reparations on other non-electronic parts of the cameras too as the product ages. 

 

But with the M9 it is a defect in the product, which I think is a different thing from the normal life expectancy of electronic products. And surely this should be dealt with differently than normal repairs.

 

That's correct and I think it was dealt with differently.

[Go Figure]

Except for federally mandated auto recalls, I can't think of another instance where a vendor would offer free repairs of a product owned by someone who is not their customer. At least in the USA. 

 

Leica replaced my second-hand MM sensor, but I would have found it reasonable for them to not do so. After all, they got nothing from me.

 

John 

Apple does , Sage does, ...  

[Go Figure]

I don't. The issue is with the product, not with the owner.

that sums it up 100%

[Rus]

That's correct and I think it was dealt with differently.

True. But dealt with in such willy-nilly attitude and with going back and forth on promises, which now makes one question the sincerity and good will of company.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Rus

[Ko.Fe.]

I think most of us will agree on the point about the shorter lifespan of electronic device, which is also why most of us would be willing to pay for it if the electronic components of the camera need to be repaired or replaced. Hell we are willing to pay for replacements or reparations on other non-electronic parts of the cameras too as the product ages. 

 

But with the M9 it is a defect in the product, which I think is a different thing from the normal life expectancy of electronic products. And surely this should be dealt with differently than normal repairs. 

 

I don't think what generalizing photo cameras with made in China coffeemakers is relevant to this thread.

 

I have seen and also have digital photo cameras which were one of the first made. They still works, including original batteries. In fact, any digital camera if made under appropriate manufacturing procedures will outperform most of the film cameras. Well, I'm generalizing as well. Lets take my film M and digital M as example. My film M has lubrication gone and some parts worn out after three years of use and around three thousands of exposures were taken. It went for CLA and parts and it costs money. If any film M camera is in use for thousands of pictures per year it will need service often. Garry Winogrand has to constantly send his two M4 for service.  But digital M bodies could handle ten of thousands of exposures without CLA.

 

The thing is - in digital cameras manufacturing industry Leica is small company with limited workforce. And due to this they are prone to mistakes. We as the users have to understand it, maybe even more than Leica does with their stuff which comes and go. 

[tobey bilek]

The Leica Historical Society had an attorney on staff when Leica announced thy would no longer supply parts to independent prepare people.  I understand it took only a letter to straighten that out.

 

People bought the product in good faith.  This is a top end expensive item and hidden defects out of control of user need to be addressed especially since they said they would cover it .   

[Ecar]

Trust erased. I wish I hadn't taken delivery of an M10 last week... I would have cancelled the order. Seriously.

FWIW, I also have an M9, an M9-P and an MM. So far, only the M9 appears to show signs of corrosion. I will send it in - and the M10 will probably be my last purchase from Leica.

[Aguilera85]

I have only had my M9 for a few days and got slapped in the face with this news about the change in policy about the sensor swap.

Fortunately the sensor seems to show initial signs of corrosion with the halos.

 

However, now i am completely terrified about what the future holds. Especially since i sacrificed so much to own my first digital M, and second hand! 

Are the new sensors they supply now corrosion proof? Im worried of what might happen to the camera in the future.

I am seriously considering and somewhat hopefull that when i send my M9 to NJ, that they will offer the upgrade to the M240 since it is a sensor that does not have that problem. Does anyone know if they offer a swap or is the upgrade only some credit for the M9 with a payment for the new camera?

 

On one hand i am somewhat excited to have the opportunity to own a new Leica camera if an upgrade is offered and/or within my limited budget.

On the other hand, it was my dream to own a modern classic M like my beautiful M3. Theres just something that sounds so much sweeter about owning an M9 than an M240. Even if the 240 has so many new modern features. And my M9 is cosmetically and mechanically in mint condition. Which makes it even sadder to have this fear looming over the camera.

 

Not sure if anyone has gone for the upgrade? What the experience was?

Can i trust in the future with my M9 and its CCD sensor? Because it will most likely be 20 years when my girls are in college that i might be able to afford to buy my own new Leica camera from a dealer. My M3 and M9 were meant to be my cameras for the foreseeable long future.

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Edited May 17, 2017 by Aguilera85

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Ko.Fe.]

.... Because it will most likely be 20 years when my girls are in college that i might be able to afford to buy my own new Leica camera from a dealer. My M3 and M9 were meant to be my cameras for the foreseeable long future.

 

No worries! If Leica will be still in business in ten years from now the LNiB M240 will costs 1K$. If Leica is not in business in ten years from now, M240 will cost twice less.