M 11 will be around in less than 4 years. The speculations and facts.

[jaapv]

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That was indeed a fun camera!

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Paulus]

Am 6.2.2019 um 16:36 schrieb pgk:

I'd seriously question whether the M cameras should still carry the 'reportage' tag. I suspect that there are many more effective options for reportage out there. My objection to the M as a video unit is simply because it is not designed to shoot video and will only do so well with extreme care. It sort of goes against the grain for Leica to include a feature which is likely to be (very) poorly used for the most part IMO.

I think Eddy van Wessel disagrees with you: https://www.eddyvanwessel.com

 

[pgk]

21 minutes ago, Paulus said:

I think Eddy van Wessel disagrees with you: https://www.eddyvanwessel.com

There is no doubt that the Leica M system CAN still be used for reportage, but I did say that there were probably many more better options out there so the tag is more relevant to them and less to Leica. Of the 'street' photographers I meet, none are using Ms. On the other hand I meet people shooting landscape and especially mountains on them - another 'traditional' M genre to which it is still suited but in the minority. Personally I see the M as a fundamentally versatile camera, within its limits, and one which is thoroughly enjoyable to use. Trying to suggest that its for a specific genre is limiting it and it is still far more than just a reportage camera.

[-Lss-]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:07 PM, Dirk Mandeville said:

Agreed. Plus, whatever Leica offers in video functionality will be wholly insufficient to any true video enthusiast. Thus they would be adding this feature to appeal to a very small segment of the M user base that wants a video function on their M camera. Just doesn’t seem like it makes a lot of sense to go that route. 

Of course, this is not entirely true. A lot of video work can be achieved with an M camera that provides other means than OVF/rangefinder for framing and focusing. It would not meet the requirements of all video enthusiasts, same as pretty much any other camera, but there are many use cases and situations where it would be great tool. The technical quality of the offering needs to be good to make it relevant, though.

One thing is anyway clear. Any segment of M users remains rather small in absolute numbers.

[jaapv]

There are some pretty good videos out there taken with the M240...

However, I see it more as a video notebook, short travel clips and supplementary footage.

[Paulus]

Any Idea, what 7 March will happen? M11?

 

Leica bei Meister cited: ".enthüllen wir am Mittwoch, den 7. März 2019, um exakt 15°° Uhr in unseren Stores die Neuerscheinung."

[wlaidlaw]

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16 minutes ago, Paulus said:

Any Idea, what 7 March will happen? M11?

 

Leica bei Meister cited: ".enthüllen wir am Mittwoch, den 7. März 2019, um exakt 15°° Uhr in unseren Stores die Neuerscheinung."

Just the Q2 I think and I believe it is the 6th. I was hoping maybe for an OIS TL zoom tele lens, with a wider range and stabilised replacement for the 55-135, maybe a 45-180.  Also maybe the SL2 but I suspect I will be disappointed for both of these. 

Wilson

[M11 for me]

And unfortunately they offer you a promotional price for the Q all by knowing that the Q2 will be announced in a few days and inviting you to the Q2 announcement event. Do you like that kind of customer friendliness or customer orientation?

Edited March 2, 2019 by Alex U.

[jdlaing]

Yes.

[Dirk Mandeville]

4 hours ago, Alex U. said:

And unfortunately they offer you a promotional price for the Q all by knowing that the Q2 will be announced in a few days and inviting you to the Q2 announcement event. Do you like that kind of customer friendliness or customer orientation?

Ummm, yes?  Yes, I like having choices between buying an older model of a great camera at a discount, or waiting a week or so and buying the newer model of the same fantastic camera. What’s unfortunate about that?  Anyone that’s been paying attention has known the Q2 was coming out soon for months. I’ve been waiting for it since last summer. What’s Leica supposed to do?  Stop selling the old model a year before the new one comes out, just to save hapless customers from having buyer’s remorse?  I seriously don’t understand complaints like this. They’re in the business of selling cameras. They’ll be more than happy to sell you either model. Why is that a bad thing, in your mind?

Edited March 2, 2019 by Dirk Mandeville

[Fedro]

yes indeed. It is good to have options and they may continue to sell both side by side for some time to come. I am also not sure I understand why would this be a problem

[M11 for me]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Dirk Mandeville:

Ummm, yes?  Yes, I like having choices between buying an older model of a great camera at a discount, or waiting a week or so and buying the newer model of the same fantastic camera. What’s unfortunate about that?  Anyone that’s been paying attention has known the Q2 was coming out soon for months. I’ve been waiting for it since last summer. What’s Leica supposed to do?  Stop selling the old model a year before the new one comes out, just to save hapless customers from having buyer’s remorse?  I seriously don’t understand complaints like this. They’re in the business of selling cameras. They’ll be more than happy to sell you either model. Why is that a bad thing, in your mind?

I imagine that your points are not fully correct. Many people do not know about the forthcoming Q2 announcement and there is nothing about that in the add. Just promoprice for the Q. If we had side by side a new model and a previous one with promo price that would be perfectly ok.

I say this as I read in other threads that people talk about the announcement not knowing what it is. And liking the promo. That is my point.

But let it be. I am just sorry about people buying something not knowing that there is an announcement around the corner.

[Fedro]

I really do not think Leica is doing much wrong here. Most companies will sell at a discount or push hard to clear backup of previous models when the new one is coming out. Regardless of whether the new one has been announced or not. Q2 release early this year has been rumoured for almost a year and pretty obvious since a few weeks at least. The old model is 4 years old. It just takes a google search, and probably highly recommended before plunging nearly $5k in electronics?

[dkmoore]

3 hours ago, Fedro said:

I really do not think Leica is doing much wrong here. Most companies will sell at a discount or push hard to clear backup of previous models when the new one is coming out. Regardless of whether the new one has been announced or not. Q2 release early this year has been rumoured for almost a year and pretty obvious since a few weeks at least. The old model is 4 years old. It just takes a google search, and probably highly recommended before plunging nearly $5k in electronics?

They just released the Q-P and people bought that. A couple of months later the Q-P price gets cut because a new model is to be released. Those people that spent the premium on the Q-P might have bought the Q2 or saved money buying the Q-P rather than paying the premium had they waiting two months.

This doesn't bother me but I could see how it would be frustrating to someone that just bought the Q-P and is one of those (like me) that likes the latest and greatest gear.

On the M11, I am torn when it comes to the MPIXEL WAR. It seems we would either get the 47 MP or another 24 MP and IF the blur drama is true (with high MP cameras needing stabilizing) I hope they stick with 24MP or move up nominally to 36. 

The only change I would LOVE to see in the M11 is some sort of indicator when the focus patches coincide 100%. For instance, if I am focusing and the patches line up perfectly on my subject and the rangefinder lights up green. NOW that would be an awesome advancement. Otherwise, the M10P is pretty darn close to perfection for me.

[Kwesi]

20 hours ago, Alex U. said:

And unfortunately they offer you a promotional price for the Q all by knowing that the Q2 will be announced in a few days and inviting you to the Q2 announcement event. Do you like that kind of customer friendliness or customer orientation?

If a manufacturer offers me a low price on a current camera and in the same ad invites me to an event announcing new cameras, can I really blame them for my inability to read between the lines?

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, dkmoore said:

They just released the Q-P and people bought that. A couple of months later the Q-P price gets cut because a new model is to be released. Those people that spent the premium on the Q-P might have bought the Q2 or saved money buying the Q-P rather than paying the premium had they waiting two months.

This doesn't bother me but I could see how it would be frustrating to someone that just bought the Q-P and is one of those (like me) that likes the latest and greatest gear.

On the M11, I am torn when it comes to the MPIXEL WAR. It seems we would either get the 47 MP or another 24 MP and IF the blur drama is true (with high MP cameras needing stabilizing) I hope they stick with 24MP or move up nominally to 36. 

The only change I would LOVE to see in the M11 is some sort of indicator when the focus patches coincide 100%. For instance, if I am focusing and the patches line up perfectly on my subject and the rangefinder lights up green. NOW that would be an awesome advancement. Otherwise, the M10P is pretty darn close to perfection for me.

I don't think motion blur is a drama, Dunk. Yes, it will be a bit more prevalent, but a decent shooting technique, especially with long lenses, should suffice

[Fedro]

2 hours ago, dkmoore said:

They just released the Q-P and people bought that. A couple of months later the Q-P price gets cut because a new model is to be released. Those people that spent the premium on the Q-P might have bought the Q2 or saved money buying the Q-P rather than paying the premium had they waiting two months.

This doesn't bother me but I could see how it would be frustrating to someone that just bought the Q-P and is one of those (like me) that likes the latest and greatest gear.

On the M11, I am torn when it comes to the MPIXEL WAR. It seems we would either get the 47 MP or another 24 MP and IF the blur drama is true (with high MP cameras needing stabilizing) I hope they stick with 24MP or move up nominally to 36. 

The only change I would LOVE to see in the M11 is some sort of indicator when the focus patches coincide 100%. For instance, if I am focusing and the patches line up perfectly on my subject and the rangefinder lights up green. NOW that would be an awesome advancement. Otherwise, the M10P is pretty darn close to perfection for me.

I am not sure if people who bought a special edition of a 4 year old camera (in terms of technology) were prime targets for the new camera anyways? Sure they could have waited and gotten it cheaper if they knew the Q-P was going to be lowered in price,  but which business will ever tell customers "wait for a few months, we will discount it because we aere launching a new model?". Leica is a business

The only thing that surprises me in the whole story is why did they wait for so long to launch the QP, given that they did differently with the M series (and would have launched the QP a couple of years ago if they followed that pattern).

On the M11, I am not a technical expert, but I am not sure why they should not increase MP if it is manageable by the lenses and it gives better quality. Why not?

Let's not join the MPixel war but let's not join the Mpixel cult either

[dkmoore]

2 hours ago, Fedro said:

I am not sure if people who bought a special edition of a 4 year old camera (in terms of technology) were prime targets for the new camera anyways? Sure they could have waited and gotten it cheaper if they knew the Q-P was going to be lowered in price,  but which business will ever tell customers "wait for a few months, we will discount it because we aere launching a new model?". Leica is a business

The only thing that surprises me in the whole story is why did they wait for so long to launch the QP, given that they did differently with the M series (and would have launched the QP a couple of years ago if they followed that pattern).

On the M11, I am not a technical expert, but I am not sure why they should not increase MP if it is manageable by the lenses and it gives better quality. Why not?

Let's not join the MPixel war but let's not join the Mpixel cult either

Good point, they should have released the QP 2 years ago. They obviously didn't release the QP to get ride of leftover bodies since the Q2 is using the same shell.

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

I don't think motion blur is a drama, Dunk. Yes, it will be a bit more prevalent, but a decent shooting technique, especially with long lenses, should suffice

I guess I will have to wait and see how I fair with the higher MP. With a 50mm or longer I usually stay at 1/60th at the absolute lowest and I get camera shake/blur. I need to work on my holding technique. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[roma]

Would love to see the following digital M to be focused on color fidelity at higher ISOs and just better overall sensor that can be pushed and pulled easier, rather than focus on the number of pixels. Would also love to see better battery life.

To me, film Ms always stood for reliability, speed, and as low maintenance as possible, particularly while traveling. So, I will take as few glitches with any part of camera operation, a greatly improved 24MP sensor and as few battery charges as possible over any other improvements.

[a.noctilux]

Hello Roma,

Color fidelity at higher ISO ?

Do you want to say that M10 has trouble to reproduce colors at high ISO, just curious how high ?

 

Battery greater life, maybe, even if I think that customers ask for thinner body and it would not be easy to put in bigger battery.

Easy to carry some more spare batteries that take a couple of seconds to replace exhausted one.