jaapv Posted November 25, 2016 Share #21 Posted November 25, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) NRE (non recurring engineering). It takes a while for all that Engineering overhead to be paid back. You either have to make the per-unit price sky high or amortize the costs over tens (hundreds?) of thousands of units. And if you say "but it doesn't take much engineering to swap in a new sensor" you'd be wrong. Still have to lay out PC boards. Still have to test first articles. Still have to go though agency testing. Still have to set up and verify manufacturing. Still have to update manuals and sales literature etc. Even minor changes to a product to reduce recurring costs often have a significant chunk of NRE. [My experience isn't in cameras but I don't expect that much difference]. Apple can come out with a new iPhone every year because they sell somewhere between 30 and 75 million units per quarter. When Leica sells that many cameras they'll be able to design a new camera every year. Joke detector not updated? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 25, 2016 Posted November 25, 2016 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Next generation M will be the M11 (not the M10). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted November 25, 2016 Share #22 Posted November 25, 2016 Can you tell me what was revolutionary about the M4 compared to an M3? Still it was a vastly succesfull camera Sure. The M4 had 35mm frame lines. Consumers were not so concerned about 135mm dominated viewfinder. Rewind was rational. Loading was rational. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted November 25, 2016 Share #23 Posted November 25, 2016 if the M10 or 11 it now seems does have at least the following specs : 320 terapixels wifi bluetooth quadruple SD slots dual SSD bay AF 180 fps in continuous mode for 3 hours dishwasher phone another phone 48 inch oled display take photographs because I can't 1/2 inch thick muzak player disco ball ... then I'll keep my stupid M9. There, I've said it. Leica management, you'd better be listening to me !! All the above and it must be able to make gallery quality inkjet prints up to 24x36 inch size while being no larger or heavier than the M240. If Leica wants the M line to be successful in the next 4 to 6 years... I would dare hazard a guess that the Poo-Bahs in Wetzlar have a better grasp of what to do "if" they want to be successful than any of us here do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 25, 2016 Share #24 Posted November 25, 2016 There is an important bit left out of that part-quotation:"with development at the present time" and it was true. An 1.6 crop sensor like the RD1 would not have been acceptable in the M8, the sensor of the M9 was on the edge of technology - with even sensor cracks as a result. I think you mixed up your responses, or missed my point. I didn't omit words in the quote. We're in agreement that the M9 was cutting edge.....that was my whole point, in rebuttal to your post #2 that there have not "huge leaps forward" since 1954 other than the M8..... i.e., the M9 seemed to me to be a pretty huge leap. I cited cracked sensors, etc. to reinforce the notion that it was not easy to make the leap. And I agree, too, that the M8 was a huge leap....so I don't get your comment on the RD1. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackk Posted November 25, 2016 Share #25 Posted November 25, 2016 I stopped caring what new cameras are being released ever since I got the M240 3 years ago. Sorry if this counts as OT. If one wants more/something new, I suggest getting an OLED TV to enjoy the pictures taken with the M. I did it and was amazed by how nice the pictures look, taken by a 60 years old Summaron 35mm 3.5 lens with the M240, on an OLED panel. Totally agreed - less is more cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack-tucker Posted November 25, 2016 Share #26 Posted November 25, 2016 Why can't there be a new camera every year? Surely the sensor technology is outdated on a yearly basis. +1 And my (and I am sure that's true for most people here) photography skills would truely require a better camera every year – I would make so great pictures if I would allready have the M12. It's such a shame... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 25, 2016 Share #27 Posted November 25, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think you mixed up your responses, or missed my point. I didn't omit words in the quote. We're in agreement that the M9 was cutting edge.....that was my whole point, in rebuttal to your post #2 that there have not "huge leaps forward" since 1954 other than the M8..... i.e., the M9 seemed to me to be a pretty huge leap. I cited cracked sensors, etc. to reinforce the notion that it was not easy to make the leap. And I agree, too, that the M8 was a huge leap....so I don't get your comment on the RD1. Jeff It does indeed seem we are agreeing at cross-purposes. Still, I don't think that your example of the M9 holds. The same camera with the same sensor only larger may well have been a real improvement for wide-angle enthusiasts, i do not think that it is huge technological leap. In fact, I still struggle to understand which technological development made the transition possible, to me it seems more like working up the courage to carry existing technology one step further. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted November 25, 2016 Share #28 Posted November 25, 2016 There won't be an M10 or an M11. Leica have decided that all M's will be called the M (and a type number). Yes, it's bloody confusing! So what if they did an M (Typ 10) ? ... "that's gonna cause a little confusion"* * copyright Idle & Cleese Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted November 25, 2016 Share #29 Posted November 25, 2016 Still, I don't think that your example of the M9 holds. The same camera with the same sensor only larger may well have been a real improvement for wide-angle enthusiasts, i do not think that it is huge technological leap. mmm, I remember at the time there was a fair amount of drooling around on this very forum. The fact that Leica themselves had said that a FF M was unlikely to ever see the light of day did add an element of awe to the 09/09/09 event and was considered by many to be a huge technological leap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted November 25, 2016 Share #30 Posted November 25, 2016 Essential upgrades: When stroked it must purr. It has to have a high end coffee maker built in. Everything else is irrelevant . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted November 25, 2016 Share #31 Posted November 25, 2016 Essential upgrades: When stroked it must purr. It has to have a high end coffee maker built in. Everything else is irrelevant . Absolutely, but the the purring is only on the special edtion M11 where the usual leatherette has been replaced by very precious cat skin harvested from old egyptian temple cats Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted November 25, 2016 Share #32 Posted November 25, 2016 It will be the same, with minor upgrades, in late 2017. 240 is too successful. The leak is a fake. The exposure compensation dial totally unnecessary. The 240 with it's rolling exposure compensation works just as well. There will be no electronic viewfinder with optical viewfinder (like Fuji))...it will stay as is...since the M8. Live view, absolutely with a better plug on view finder... a carbuncle we have learnt to live with, as all viewfinders. A flash socket would be good. Maybe a bit lighter...slimmer perhaps unnecessary, unworkable? I think a carbon-fibre may come along soon. Just my (not) humble opinion. all best to all.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted November 25, 2016 Share #33 Posted November 25, 2016 Leica can add whatever as long as its based on the rangefinder constrains. If they do it will be an M10. If they make a break its not an M but something else.An interesting case would be if Leica implemented an EVF with backward compatibility for M lenses, that is the focus mechanisms used the mechanical coupling. Would that still be an M?Sorry if I state the obvious, Personally I find it hard to see what Leica could offer in M10 that would make me replace the M(240), for sure not an EVF. Perhaps much, much, much improved high-ISO sensor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted November 25, 2016 Share #34 Posted November 25, 2016 an hybrid RF or ERF would be a M and I'll buy it at once Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted November 25, 2016 Share #35 Posted November 25, 2016 The M5 was more revolutionary than the M4. Not all revolutions succeed. The M9 was a revolution for me: the first digital camera I liked, and I still use it. I also call the Sony A7 a landmark: it is my digital solution for 3 makes of orphaned SLR lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 25, 2016 Share #36 Posted November 25, 2016 Seems like the word revolution has not the same meaning everywhere. I haven't seen any quantum leap since the M3 when i was using film and as far as digital rangefinders are concerned the only one i perceived came from Epson not Leica. Some innovations are expected like a faster EVF, silent shutter, cleaner high isos, etc. but they have been experienced elsewhere already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsleica Posted November 25, 2016 Share #37 Posted November 25, 2016 I wish Voightlander would come out with a good digital rangefinder body at a great price.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted November 25, 2016 Share #38 Posted November 25, 2016 I wish for world peace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 25, 2016 Share #39 Posted November 25, 2016 mmm, I remember at the time there was a fair amount of drooling around on this very forum. The fact that Leica themselves had said that a FF M was unlikely to ever see the light of day did add an element of awe to the 09/09/09 event and was considered by many to be a huge technological leap. Or a major marketing coup? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted November 25, 2016 Share #40 Posted November 25, 2016 Anickpick, welcome to the Forum. Of course people like to speculate or give their opinion on what they think Leica Camera should do. You have some keywords there that people have different reactions too, since these threads do pop up regularly.Leica MUST, M10, M11, rumour, thinner body My two cents is that any next generation M camera tends to follow a product life of some years though- M8, M9 M (Typ 240) as a baseline.I think that you can safely say that it won't be called M10 or M11 though, under the new naming conventions. You could in any case think that the M (Typ 240) was already the camera some people liked to think of as M10.There is a lot of effort and resources devoted to the SL system though and the hypothetical next S too. Maybe evolutionary changes are more likely than a hugely different new M for now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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