brill64 Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2321 Posted January 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) yes, revolutionary was the step from M8 to M9 yet too much revolutionary isn't always the correct path. i definitely would not feel so despondent, though. the M10 represents subtle yet distinctive advances which users will certainly appreciate so more kudos to Leica. it also leaves & i can see plenty of room for development of future M models. it all depends on whether you're willing to dig deep into your pocket for that. if i hadn't had my M-240 base plate signed by Bruce Gilden, i'd be sorely tempted! some things are just more valued than technological advances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2017 Posted January 19, 2017 Hi brill64, Take a look here Leica M 10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stephen.w Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2322 Posted January 19, 2017 Apologies if I've missed this, but has there been official word on whether the M10 will be compatible with any future higher spec'ed EVF? The end of the Matt Stuart clip on the Leica blog states that it was filmed with the SL: A not-so-subtle suggestion of where to look if you want a Leica movie camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2323 Posted January 19, 2017 I don't want to rain on anyones parade but is the ultrasound sensor cleaning system is very hard to implement on M? Does it require the additional space in the body ? Its not material for sure but anyway. It requires a minimum thickness of the cover glass, otherwise it would break. Hence the extra thickness of the SL sensor cover glass. In order to maximize the M lens performance, the M cover glass can't be as thick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2324 Posted January 19, 2017 Biggest thing is usable ISO 6400. Add the M6 footprint, big OVF, extra mag, EVF and tools it's going to do very well. One single feature I would really miss: silent shutter mode. Would this have required extra hardware over the sensor? Please spare me the "you don't need that". Anyone who has ever shot sensitive events has craved a silent shutter, or is just oblivious to the ire which the click causes with many normal people in those situations. The A7r2 has one, why on earth not the M10? Maybe there is good reason, but I would like to hear it. But you don't need that, Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted W Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2325 Posted January 19, 2017 Well, that only took ten years. This is the camera we wanted the M8 to be -- full frame, same dimensions, great files. But better late than never! I downloaded some samples from the Leica site and ran them through C1 and was very pleased with the results I was able to achieve. These are the best digital M raw files I've seen so far, and very comparable to files from a Sony A7II. A lot of latitude at the bottom and very sharp, which I don't know whether to attribute to the sensor or the lenses. I had the sharpening control turned off completely and still found the images to be sharp, some tack sharp. Interesting. This is the first time I've actually considered buying one of these to go with my M7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distagon Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2326 Posted January 19, 2017 It depends whether one takes "M" for "Messsucher". Digital storage of photos didn't change the rangefinder. Of course no user has any duty to stick with the rangefinder, there are many alternatives on the market. May be one day the traditional rangefinder concept becomes redundant - it's already old fashioned and irrelevant when you look at the whole market. If one is happy to dispense the rangefinder it would be strange to uphold a certain outward design just for the design's sake to call it "M".The rangefinder has intrinsic advantages and intrinsic limitations, of which everyone here is well aware.A hybrid OVF-EVF-optoelectronic rangefinder is still a rangefinder, and any camera using one would still be a Messsucherkamera. It would not be mere marketing to call such a camera 'M'. At the same time, a hybrid could offer a combination of features no other camera could rival. That could make the rangefinder and M a more comprehensive photographic system. The hybrid concept seemed a very exciting opportunity to really make the M a highly flexible, future fit and competitive solution while staying true to its manual focus simplicity. We don't need to consider the rangefinder as a quaint, old technology attractive only to a few connoisseurs. The rangefinder needn't be "old fashioned", but the unadventurous design of the M10 seems to very much take that route. The M10 is no doubt a fine camera, but it also seems like a huge missed opportunity. Thanks for your thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oronet commander Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2327 Posted January 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) These are the best digital M raw files I've seen so far, and very comparable to files from a Sony A7II. Not a very encouraging comparison, isn't it? You can buy four A7II bodies for the M10 money... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imants Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2328 Posted January 19, 2017 Oh, I'm not in Argentina; I'm in Thailand. But this system seems to inject the first country in the list if you don't specify one. Weird. Nah don't believe you ........you are in Argentina saw you there yesterday getting the 5.25 bus to Las Canitas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matlep Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2329 Posted January 19, 2017 I have now seen some videos and read some of the reviews of the camera. Everybody seems stoked about the "Lightness" of the camera. The specs says 20 grams lighter than the M 240? I doubt that 20 grams is even noticeable in the real world. But maybe it is the experience as a whole that gives the impression of a lighter camera? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Poole Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2330 Posted January 19, 2017 I have now seen some videos and read some of the reviews of the camera. Everybody seems stoked about the "Lightness" of the camera. The specs says 20 grams lighter than the M 240? I doubt that 20 grams is even noticeable in the real world. But maybe it is the experience as a whole that gives the impression of a lighter camera? I took the lens off my m9 and couldn't believe how light it was without my Summicron on, I don't think 20g will make much difference but I suppose if you look at the theory of marginal gains then it all adds up. www.robertpoolephotography.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2331 Posted January 19, 2017 .... The M10 is no doubt a fine camera, but it also seems like a huge missed opportunity. .... Well of course we can take it as a missed opportunity as long as we are not responsible neither for the choice nor for the implementation of any opportunities. Of course the M8 was a missed opportunity to build a camera with full-framed sensor and the M9 was a missed opportunity to build one with live view. I am rather sure they didn't have the opportunity as the just could not build such a camera at the time given. If one misses a hybrid viewfinder now one has a good reason to dismiss the whole brand: they just can't do it, or they are too stupid to take the right choices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isuperfish Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2332 Posted January 19, 2017 Just had a glance at Sean Reid's review but i stopped reading page 3 where he says that the M10's EVF does black out for a little over a second after each exposure even with auto-review off. Incredible.... what did he say about the ISO? thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted W Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2333 Posted January 19, 2017 Not a very encouraging comparison, isn't it? You can buy four A7II bodies for the M10 money... True, but this is a Leica forum. So I assume people here use Leicas for reasons other than pure practicality. I mean, you could go even further: the A7II, with adapter, can be used exactly the same way one would use an M and with the same lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distagon Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2334 Posted January 19, 2017 Well of course we can take it as a missed opportunity as long as we are not responsible neither for the choice nor for the implementation of any opportunities. Of course the M8 was a missed opportunity to build a camera with full-framed sensor and the M9 was a missed opportunity to build one with live view. I am rather sure they didn't have the opportunity as the just could not build such a camera at the time given. If one misses a hybrid viewfinder now one has a good reason to dismiss the whole brand: they just can't do it, or they are too stupid to take the right choices. Thanks UliWer. I have no doubt that Leica has the technical competence to implement such a device, if it chose to do so. Business case and managerial will, though, are different matters. Given that they have the 2015 patent, someone in Leica gave it some serious thought. It would be fascinating to know how and why the idea hasn't got legs yet as a product, but I doubt we'll ever get that degree of insight. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2335 Posted January 19, 2017 But why do we need constant change anyway? The simplest questions are usually the trickiest. Personally I think that change should be positive and digital has matured, to the point where we have tools which deliver results undreamed of a decade ago - yet still some yearn for major advances/shifts. Change should now be evolutionary - adjustments to give photographers tools which are modified to incorporate benefits - rather than shifts in design for changes sake. I've looked at the M10 specs and to me it is evolutionary and changes things where they are deemed beneficial (still some excess mind you ). There will always be detractors but I wonder how many would benefit dramatically had all the outrageous ideas touted been incorporated into a new M and, most importantly of all, whether their pictures would be as dramatically improved - I very much doubt it. The M10 looks like a considered and well targeted design to me. For those who want more functions there are other cameras I'm afraid and perhaps the M is the wrong platform for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
@McLeica Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2336 Posted January 19, 2017 Perfect evolution of the M cameras I think. 1. Thinner - If you use an M6 or M7 you know how good they feel in the hand. Weight is irrelevant and 3.8mm makes a big difference. 2. Sensor - If it can deal with colours anywhere near as good as the M9 then that's a big step forward. 3. Buffer - Yup all good too. Anything to speed up the flow and stop the black screen and blinking red light. 4. Rangefinder - Bigger and brighter is better without a doubt. 5. No video - Perfect. In my mind, this is an evolution in the right direction. Retro, true to brand and focused on the user experience and not spec / feature chasing. Just my two cents worth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2337 Posted January 19, 2017 what did he say about the ISO? thanks Re: Sean Reid, you'll have to read it on his site -- it's not that expensive and he has three articles up, one coming. He's basically on the same page as Jono Slack. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2338 Posted January 19, 2017 Perfect evolution of the M cameras I think. 1. Thinner - If you use an M6 or M7 you know how good they feel in the hand. Weight is irrelevant and 3.8mm makes a big difference. 2. Sensor - If it can deal with colours anywhere near as good as the M9 then that's a big step forward. 3. Buffer - Yup all good too. Anything to speed up the flow and stop the black screen and blinking red light. 4. Rangefinder - Bigger and brighter is better without a doubt. 5. No video - Perfect. "Bigger and brighter" are improvements of the viewfinder not rangefinder. Although they mention "several important aspects of this legendary combined viewfinder and rangefinder system have now been further improved", I wonder what has been done to the rangerfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUF Admin Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2339 Posted January 19, 2017 Please take our quick survey:Is the Leica M10 tempting for you? Please vote ASAP, I'll show the results to Stefan Daniel and Jesko v. Oeynhausen at 1pm (CET) = in 2,5 h TIA Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted January 19, 2017 Share #2340 Posted January 19, 2017 I like it. Smaller, better viewfinder, ISO dial, bigger screen, less buttons. I would have preferred the ISO dial to be a wheel just next to the speed one. That way, the left hand takes care of focus and aperture and right one speed and ISO. A split second gain sometimes counts in street photography. I'd prefer a CCD, but the high ISO capability of the CMOS is an interesting trade-off. What I don't like is the price. I remember paying €5'500 for the M9, now we are already at close to €7'000. When does it stop ? . I shoot thousands of pictures yearly, absolutely love the M system, but I can't keep up with the price increases. So I'll stick to my M9 for now and maybe in a few years when used M10's get to an affordable price, I'll get one. I saw you were watching the presentation thread and was wondering if you're interested. Good to see you back. I bought one of your books. It brings a smile to my face thinking of it. Great idea. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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