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Leica M 10

rijve044

By rijve044
in Leica M10

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edwardkaraa
edwardkaraa

Stole this one from a Facebook account

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jonoslack
jonoslack

As I understand it a lot of work went into the concept of a hybrid with a proper mechanical rangefinder and as far as I remember it there were two main problems 1. that it was impossible to get the E

NZDavid
NZDavid

You could have argued the M3 was a dead end. The M10 looks very similar. The basic shape and ergonomics have not changed in 60 years! You could also argue the M3 was already a mature product, or very

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erl

erl

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Posted

OK guys, I and many others take exception to the printed use of the 'f' word in the open forum.

Face to face, when you are aware of who your audience is, it may OK, but on the open forum you do not know who you can be offending.

So stop it, now.

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NZDavid

NZDavid

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"Feeling", what's wrong with saying "feeling"?

 

I'm only just able to access the forum and read al about it. "Server unavailable" this morning. I guess folks must have gotten overexcited in the northern half and overloaded it....

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Daedalus2000

Daedalus2000

Posted
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Interesting read here  http://blog.leica-camera.com/2017/01/18/looking-back-move-forward/   regarding the design decisions for the M10.

 

A couple of quotes relevant to the discussions here:

 

"Recording videos with an M is a very exciting application, because just like M photography, it yields results that cannot be achieved with any other system. For this reason we also continue to offer the M10’s sister models, the Leica M and M-P ( Typ 240)"

 

"However, the WLAN interface cannot as yet eliminate the need for tethered-shooting solutions in the studio. For this purpose, the M/M-P ( Typ 240) with their multi-function handgrip continue to be available."

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NZDavid

NZDavid

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Ok. Now, when M10 finally introduced and we can see the technical specifications as well as preliminary reviews from Reid and Jono, we can predict the future of Rangefinder  cameras system  from Leica.

 

I like the shape and ergonomics  of M10 and i do appreciate the increased low light capabilities as well as better OVF. Its probably very good camera and will be best solution  for M lenses.  

 

But with deepest  sad i see that its the Dead End of M system in nearest future.

 

Leica did not introduced nothing revolutionary in new M and I don't think  that rangefinder technology has the capacity for revolutions at all. You can probably do some minor user friendly  cosmetic changes to support current users of M lenses and owners of M lenses from film era, but you can't  make anything new since M9.

 

Looks like all engineering capacity Leica concentrated on SL System and probably Q based interchangeable  lens system to come. M system is becoming niche and very limited product for aficionados and owners of M lenses. Leica simply can't  drop M system - we still need something to put on our M lens. That way, not opposite. The core value of Leica is lenses not the cameras, especially in digital era.

 

M10 is crossroad for me - I don't think that i will invest more money in next Leica M lens with the same willingness as i had when M9 was introduced.I have enough lenses to use. The question is - once M is dead end in terms of further development, what  system can substitute it - SL or QL or MQ, whatever you may call it.

 

M10 most probably the last M camera Leica developed to support current owners of M manual  focus lenses. We will see M10 version 2, 3 etc. but its the end anyway.   

 

M system is unbeatable  experience for art photography  and I enjoy rangefinder focusing more than any other  system camera. But M10 states clearly the dusk of the rangefinder technology.  Thats my personal conclusion, quite pity, but evident for me.

 

Ed

 

 

You could have argued the M3 was a dead end. The M10 looks very similar. The basic shape and ergonomics have not changed in 60 years! You could also argue the M3 was already a mature product, or very nearly. A built-in exposure meter was perhaps the biggest improvement, until the digital era. Now you have a digital sensor and the ability to conjure up pictures in virtually all light conditions. That's amazing.

 

Agree, the M10  is not revolutionary; it's evolutionary. But why do we need constant change anyway? To me, the M10 looks like the perfect minimalist expression of the classic rangefinder experience. No, it isn't for everyone, but it doesn't have to be. So long as there remain enough committed buyers, it will remain a sustainable camera in the Leica line-up. There are plenty of other models for photographers who want other features as well, such as video and USB (though multiple connection slots are hardly a formula for longevity, and I'd prefer a zoom for video). There may already be too many cameras in the Leica alphabet soup -- although far fewer than the big manufacturers.

 

My initial reaction was "brilliant!" I love features such as slimmer size, bigger finder, improved dynamic range and high ISO performance, and simplified controls. I could have written the specs myself! In fact, I did, on this forum. I'll bet Leica listened, and acted on, the wish-list of many photographers on this forum. 

 

As much as I like the M9, the M10 looks like a significant step forward. Congratulations Leica! 

Edited by NZDavid
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Joshua Lowe

Joshua Lowe

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When the M9 was introduced, Leica said, it's the perfect digital M. When they introduced the M240 they said. "We  cannot imagine how we could make it better". Now we have the M10. A few years ago they even introduced a "new" film M (which wasn't new, but just a reproduced M2/M4).

 

When something like this is said it usually is within the context of the technological reach they have at that particular time.  The camera represents the best design, hardware, manufacturing, etc.  Now that some years have passed technology has moved on and the bar can be raised.

 

That said, diminishing returns are always a factor.  I love my car analogies, especially when comparing German cars to German cameras.  And even the mighty Porsche 911 is now a mid-engined car in racing form.  They engineered the daylights out of the rear engine setup for over 50 years, but eventually they hit a wall.  But that doesn't mean the 911 is going anywhere.  

Edited by Joshua Lowe
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uhoh7

uhoh7

Posted
Posted (edited)

Biggest thing is usable ISO 6400. Add the M6 footprint, big OVF, extra mag, EVF and tools it's going to do very well. 

 

One single feature I would really miss: silent shutter mode. 

 

Would this have required extra hardware over the sensor?

 

Please spare me the "you don't need that". Anyone who has ever shot sensitive events has craved a silent shutter, or is just oblivious to the ire which the click causes with many normal people in those situations. The A7r2 has one, why on earth not the M10?

 

Maybe there is good reason, but I would like to hear it.

Edited by uhoh7
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DezFoto

DezFoto

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So I guess my assertion that they could make a digital M around the same thickness as the old M6 wasn't so far off, despite all the arguments I got from Jaapv. Anyway, very glad to see three features that were on my wish list.

1. longer than 32 second exposures (now 125 sec)

2. thinner body

3. larger viewfinder/stronger magnification

 

Those are all great things but still not really enough to make me want to upgrade.

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lct

lct

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[...] One single feature I would really miss: silent shutter mode. [..] The A7r2 has one, why on earth not the M10?

 

One could also ask why the M10 needs one second blackout time after each shot in EVF mode. Much cheaper cameras do better. The response is: It is a rangefinder camera dude! If you want speed, silence or all those stupid things, take a Sony! Just kidding but not that untrue.

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insideline

insideline

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Having worked as a senior product developer in a very high end sporting goods field for over 35 years, at the time of launching a new product to market we were deep in the the development of a product cycle, not one, but two iterations down the product cycle. So I would imagine Leica is well into the development of not only the next M product, but could well be in the early stages of some "very" new products destined for release in 3-5 years.

The fact that Jono has had a preproduction M10 for 6 months is proof that the engineers and developers handed off the core of the M10's finished features to sourcing and manufacturing long ago. 

Leica, as with any leading company, not only listens to customer feedback, but its also their job to innovate and lead the market, so time will tell what their visions are. I believe this new M10 is a sound and memorable part in the life of M bodies, but more will come. 

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lct

lct

Posted
Posted

lct does this mean that I should  upgrade my  from my RD1 I never got on with my m8 and it only sorta works my RD1 just  keeps on keeping on

 

If you need a 1:1 viewfinder, 0.73x won't do it any better than 0.68x. You just need another R-D1 if yours is dead or an M3 if you shoot film. 

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