lct Posted January 6, 2017 Share #101 Posted January 6, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) So we seem to agree about the 21/2.8 asph. It is not a Mandler lens definitely, right? About the pre-asph 21/2.8, i have no experience with this lens and i can't swear if the wiki is right or wrong. All i can say is the lens is reported as being a Mandler design in the links below. Those interested may wish to ask our colleague Andy Piper (adan) who owns this lens IINW. http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00G/00GLuV-29878084.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mandler Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 6, 2017 Posted January 6, 2017 Hi lct, Take a look here Show us some Mandler Magic. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ianman Posted January 6, 2017 Share #102 Posted January 6, 2017 So we seem to agree about the 21/2.8 asph. It is not a Mandler lens definitely, right? haha, I have no idea, about either of them. JMF and I just tried to explain to you the discrepancy between your statement and the wiki I don't know who is correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted January 6, 2017 Share #103 Posted January 6, 2017 The 21 pre asph Elmarit was apparently designed under Mandler's supervision: http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_fotografici/Leica_M_21mm_2,8/00_pag.htm http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/45272-in-praise-of-the-mandler-lenses/ Let's share some photos :-) 21 Elmarit pre asph e60 on Leica CL with triX: low tide games by JM__, on Flickr A day at the beach by JM__, on Flickr More Tri-X Girona by JM__, on Flickr on the M8: Praia do Forte, Bahia by JM__, on Flickr Watchman, Goregaon, Mumbai by JM__, on Flickr and on the SL 601: Le "cri" ! by JM__, on Flickr Cheers, JM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 6, 2017 Share #104 Posted January 6, 2017 75mm Summilux wide open on the M9. A 'dreamy' lens but sharp - individual hairs are actually very well defined in the focus plane (the horse's eye). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 6 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/266277-show-us-some-mandler-magic/?do=findComment&comment=3180637'>More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 6, 2017 Share #105 Posted January 6, 2017 The 75mm Summilux is my go-to lens for concerts... here are a couple of Esben and the Witch Esben and the Witch by Ian Mantripp, on Flickr Esben and the Witch by Ian Mantripp, on Flickr 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 6, 2017 Share #106 Posted January 6, 2017 Ozric Tentacles M9, 75mm Summilux Ozric Tentacles by Ian Mantripp, on Flickr 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted January 10, 2017 Share #107 Posted January 10, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) E60 (11134) is the pre-asph version. It's indeed a Mandler design but not the E55 asph version (11135) which was launched in 1997 if memory serves after Walter Mandler retired in the eighties. As they say, markets know best. At the Paris Beaumarchais Leica boutique, where I bought my E60, I noticed a 20% price difference between the two pre-asph 21mm/2.8 versions . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 10, 2017 Share #108 Posted January 10, 2017 [...] where I bought my E60, I noticed a 20% price difference between the two pre-asph 21mm/2.8 versions [...] The two pre-asph 21/2.8 versions i'm aware of are E49 and E60 with the same 11134 product number. E49 (first pic) is harder to find out and could be more expensive for this reason i suspect but i have no experience with those pre-asph versions. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/266277-show-us-some-mandler-magic/?do=findComment&comment=3183008'>More sharing options...
Alberti Posted January 15, 2017 Share #109 Posted January 15, 2017 On the LFI Walter Mandler design page, the 2.8/21 mm is listed, with a link to a page with the afore mentioned three designers. In an obituary paper by Mr Fricke, the 21 is also listed as a Mandler design. As seen in lct's post, there are two housings: E49 and E60. The versions have the same optics, the latter just having a wider sunshade and filter ring, with less vignetting of course. And there is a different 'name' on the two versions. The first version E49 is a Leitz (Canadian); the E60 is a "real" Leica lens. We see there was a retake of the branding around 1990-1992, also seen in other lenses at that time. On the back, inbossed in black, inconspiciously at the base of the lens, my E60 says MADE IN CANADA. There is no imprint on the front where it was made anymore like on the front ring of the E49 version. The E55 21mm is the ASPH version, a non-Mandler design. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted January 15, 2017 Share #110 Posted January 15, 2017 From a E60 21 pre asph 1983 on M8 : Praia do Forte by JM__, on Flickr Some of he earlier produced 21mm pre asph Elmarit lenses allow non coupled focusing down to 0.40m . RF focusing from 0.70m . I currently have one of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 15, 2017 Share #111 Posted January 15, 2017 [...] Some of he earlier produced 21mm pre asph Elmarit lenses allow non coupled focusing down to 0.40m . RF focusing from 0.70m . I currently have one of these. So you have a E49 copy i suspect. Does it have a convex or concave focus tab? Just curious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted January 15, 2017 Share #112 Posted January 15, 2017 Never seen a e49 version , they must be super rare . Chek out New Old Camera in Milan , they currently have a e60 close focus version of the 21 pre ash Elmarit for sell, with the 12537 hood and concave regular focus tab. http://www.newoldcamera.com/Scheda.aspx?Codice=15U2942 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 15, 2017 Share #113 Posted January 15, 2017 Interesting indeed, thanks for sharing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted January 16, 2017 Share #114 Posted January 16, 2017 I have looked into the error on the 21 mm LFI Wiki page, where three designers are mentioned, but not Mandler.. The error comes from a misinterpretation of the overview of Marco Cavina of the design history of this lens. In his history of the wide-angle lens designs of Leitz there were designs made for a 1960 design and on the top of this design it says "Otto Zimmermann, Heinz Marquardt, Hermann Desch Eugen Hermanni, Leitz Wetzlar - 04/1960"; the drawing taken from a patent application from the German team. Cavina says this design was used for the [first version] 28 mm Elmarit. So the shown 1960 21mm design was not a production design yet but later forms the start of the Canadian design team to start working. The new challenge was to create a more retrofocus design with clearance of the meters such as the M5. Then in 1970 there is a patent overview of Mandler, Edwards and Wagner for an improved version of 18, 21, 25, 29 mm lenses; the Canadian team based the later 1972 28mmV2 on this. Still the team was not happy with the 21mm. A 1974 design patented by only Mandler shows a design with better avoidanve of vignetting and correction of distortion; and then finally there is the 1980 design by Walter Mandler that was the basis of the production lens 11134. The final design incorporates a doublet in the retrofocus element (identified with a blue arrow if you follow the above link for Cavina); this is what Cavina calls "the DNA" of the design of Mandler: in a broader overview of 21 mm lenses he expands that this is the basis of Mandler's signature colour handling. my 2¢ 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted January 16, 2017 Share #115 Posted January 16, 2017 21 Elmarit (e60 pre asph) on M8 w/ 21 Elmarit pre asph by JM__, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted January 16, 2017 Share #116 Posted January 16, 2017 On film Catalunya National Day Celebration, Girona by JM__, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
}{B Posted January 19, 2017 Share #117 Posted January 19, 2017 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Leica M-E & 35mm Summicron MkIV 14 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Leica M-E & 35mm Summicron MkIV ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/266277-show-us-some-mandler-magic/?do=findComment&comment=3190704'>More sharing options...
michaelwj Posted January 20, 2017 Share #118 Posted January 20, 2017 The two pre-asph 21/2.8 versions i'm aware of are E49 and E60 with the same 11134 product number. E49 (first pic) is harder to find out and could be more expensive for this reason i suspect but i have no experience with those pre-asph versions. 42132185_1_x.jpg 3749-02.jpg Interestingly my Leica Pocket Book 1980 shows an E49 Elmarit (p. 59) with a similar barrel to the v1 28mm Elmarit (p. 61). It actually looks to be the 28mm in both images going from the DoF scale, so maybe there were no 21mm's yet to photograph in early 1980? Of course there is no mention of an E60 version in 1980... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 20, 2017 Share #119 Posted January 20, 2017 My Leitz catalogue 1980 shows an image of the E49... but mentions E49 on one page and E60 on the other . Same in the catalogue 1982. Leica as we love it . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 20, 2017 Share #120 Posted January 20, 2017 Excerpt of the 1982 catalogue for those interested: LeicaM_2128_11134_catal.pdf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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