Confused about switch from Canon 5D-S

[Nshah]

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Hello All,

 

This is my first post on the forum. I have few questions which may have been asked and replied to earlier but bear with me.

 

I have been photographing for last almost 35 years. I am not a professional .Photography is my hobby. The Leica products that I own are couple of Trinovid binoculars which are inspite of heavy use for last twenty years are as good as new.

 

Currently I have  a Canon 5D-S and Canon 35mm 1.4 ii plus a 100mm macro lens. With the 50 MP resolution of the Canon 5D-S,the outfit is brilliant. I have no complaints.

 

Lately ,due to my increased job commitments, many times I am leaving the DSLR back home and the DSLR is taken only on the longer trips few times a year and there too I am finding it rather tiresome to carry it around. I need a smaller and more lighter outfit and having known about Leica quality for decades,I was contemplating making a switch. I have few questions and I will be grateful if the experts out there guide me. I know these decisions are subjective   but I would like to know your opinion so that it will help me to decide as I am fairly confused right now.

 

Will it be better if I keep the existing Canon outfit,to be used sparingly, and complement it with a Leica Q?

 

In the alternative, sell the Canon outfit and buy a Leica M240 with 35mm or 50 mm lens? 

 

If I take the second option,will the quality of image of M240 with Summilux 35 be comparable to the Canon outfit that I have? M240 will be more compact I sure ,but I am scared that I am not selling away a high resolution camera like the Canon 5D-S  and the quality of M240 may not match it at all.Most of the switch stories so far I have read are about 5d Mark III,which is 24MP. To put a rider, its not that a non-professional like me must have a 50MP camera. 

 

i am extremely tempted to switch over to Leica M240 entirely,but for the above concern about the picture quality .I could add Leica Q to the existing outfit, but it means additional expense. 

 

I use the camera for landscapes, abstract,portraits,street and travel photography.

 

Since in India it is not possible to rent a Leica to try it out ,please advice. Thank you in advance.

 

N.Shah 

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[edwardkaraa]

Easy. Buy a used M240 and 35-50 lux. If you don't like them, you can sell them with almost no loss. Kind of free rental. Leica items are normally easy to sell.

[kentishrev]

Forgive me if I am telling you things you've already factored in, but it is worth remembering that the M240 is a rangefinder with manual focus.  This will be very different from any experience with an auto-focus DSLR.  I moved from an autofocus Pentax DSLR to a film M6 and love it - but others might not like the drop in ease.  The Q, as I understand it, does have autofocus.

 

As the previous poster suggests, a second-hand M (M9, 240 or 262) would give you the opportunity to see if you like it.  Or go the whole way and buy an old film Leica just to see if you like the system and manual focus.

 

Apologies if I'm simply repeating stuff you know, but just in case......

[a.noctilux]

N.Shah,

 

Keep in mind that M(type 240) family has no AF, so you may not be comfortable as with your Canon AF.

Maybe Q is a bridge to M (later...) if you like it's output and ease of handling.

 

As amateur, 24 M pics are plenty enough for me, see by yourself with Q and M240 if those 24 M pix suite you.

You may upload DNG files to make your decision.

 

As side note, when you don't have your favorite camera with you as you desire, when you want, that camera is "useless".

 

So lighter may be the route to carry a "good enough camera" for more "photo moments".

 

Regards,

 

Arnaud

[SonomaBear]

My Q is with me 24/7/365.  My Canon EOS rigs much less often.  The 28mm Q has the very best glass that I've ever used.  No exceptions, it is the best and the 24meg sensor is brilliant.  The autofocus is better than any of my phenomenal EOS bodies -- it gets situations that I can't believe.  Less and less manual focus these days.

 

I have found the 5D-s a bit hard to control with the precision with my Canon glass.  My "L" lenses are from the film days and might lack the acutance needed for the 50meg sensor.

As my camera budget (savings account) is low after buying the Q, i am saving toward either a 5D-IV or Leica SL.   I did, however, just purchase a 6D with 24~105 f4L.  "Open Box" special at Adorama can not be beaten by any other source for a new full-frame camera with warranty.  Sensor reads down to -3EV.

 

IMHO you should look at the Leica SL with its stellar 24~90 lens.  It should out-resolve the 24-70 2.8L that you probably own for your 5D-s.  Personally, I shoot manual so often and love the Leica feel, I might find a used M9 and start collecting glass.

 

Regardless of your DSLR/M240 decision, don't hesitate to buy the Q!  I doubt that any other 28mm can match the image quality of the Q.

[Jeff S]

Or consider trying the Leica SL, using a Novoflex adapter for your Canon lenses (check to be sure your lenses can be adapted).  If so, you'll have a lighter body as a complement and/or substitute. [Edit....they're about the same weight, but different form factor.] The SL can also adapt Leica M, T and S lenses...in addition of course to native SL lenses.

 

Either way, you should try any system to be sure it fits your needs and preferences...buy, rent, borrow or demo...no forum discussion can substitute.  Regarding the M, some like the RF experience, some don't.  And your overall workflow (to screen or print?), shooting habits and preferences, and output standards will surely vary from others.

 

These are all tools to perform a task.  There are lots of choices these days.  Pick what proves to work for you.

 

Jeff

[Echo63]

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I don't have a 5DS

i do have an M240 a 50 Summarit and a 90 M Rokkor and a pair of work issued 1DX with the L 16-35, 24-70, 70-200 and access to the big white super tele primes.

for me, the M produces files that are much better than the Canon, except they are a bit noisier at higher ISO - but there is still more detail in the M files at high ISO (i actually really like the look of the noise on the M)

 

the files might not be quite as big (24mp vs 50mp isn't as big a jump as it sounds) but the lenses are superb, and the sensor is excellent too.

 

as an example

mum and dad's German Sheperd in the backyard - M240 and a 90 M Rokkor (which i noticed has a loose rear element the other day - pretty sure it was ok when this pic was taken though - its still a lens that cost me $300AUD and is roughly as old as i am)

 

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and a 100% crop (800px by 800px, no resizing at all, just cropped to that size) of her left eye (right side of the photo)

you can see the patio and glass doors in the reflection of her eye.

 

 

 

A Leica is a big purchase for many people, so i would strongly recommend finding a Leica store close to you, and trying out the body and lenses you are interested in.

[Echo63]

And another example, from the 50 Summarit 

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and the 100% crop from the centre of the frame.

[dadohead]

I am a Canon shooter. I have a 5DIII and a bunch of L lenses and an Otus 55. I bought a Q for exactly the reasons you are looking at. Small and light and definitely grab-and-go, the Q blows the doors off my 5D in IQ with any Canon lens I have. Only the Otus is superior. With the Q you get the Leica look, but also speedy AF and superb handling. And I agree with other posters: there is more noise in the Q file at higher ISO, but it's a more organic structure than the Canon, more pleasing. The question is: can you live with a 28? If you can, et a Q -- you won't regret it.

[Nick Bedford]

I used to use a Canon 5D Mark III for my personal photos but now I'm M 240 with a 35mm lens all day everyday. The Canon is now my at-work camera (I even sold it to them). It's a more practical and fully featured camera for sure, but far less enjoyable to use for my own personal work due to its bulk.

 

I've really embraced the manual focus rangefinder style of photography and wouldn't give it up for the world. If you're curious, my photo blog might help as it's all Leica! The Portfolios section is the DSLR work but is not aging.

 

www.nickbedford.com/blog

 

That being said, if you need autofocus, the Q is a great alternative if you like a native 28mm fixed lens and don't mind image cropping for 35mm and 50mm photos.

[earleygallery]

The M is a completely different approach to using a DSLR. You say you're happy with the canon but would prefer a smaller/lighter camera, rather than you're keen to switch to manual focus and a rangefinder.

 

Ignore the advice about buying the SL - that's not going to solve your problem.

 

An M kit is a bit smaller than the Canon, but it's hardly a massive difference- you're still going to carry a body and couple of lenses around.

 

The Q offers you a compact FF alternative to your DSLR. Or you could look at a Canon M with the 22 f2 lens which is equivalent to a 35mm lens on its APS-C sensor, and the 22 is a real gem.

 

Personally I'd wait til Photokina to see what else Leica (and Canon) are going to announce.

[dpitt]

An M kit is a bit smaller than the Canon, but it's hardly a massive difference- you're still going to carry a body and couple of lenses around.

I completely disagree. The M is a class on its own when it comes to quality/form factor.

The weight of the body might be not much of a difference, but the size is quite different. Even more so for the size and weight of the lenses. Ever compared a Canon zoom size with a Leica 35mm or 50 mm Summicron?

 

A M240 with lens mounted will easily fit in a large jacket pocket. If you must take an other lens, a tele-Elmarit M 90 mm will fit in the other pocket with room to spare.

 

IQ wise this is a no-brainer to me.

The files from a M240 will easily outperform the 5Ds at base ISO, in my opinion. (sharpness, tones, micro contrast, dynamic range)

 

Take a MM246 and you will even have medium format performance in the same size and weight!

 

Of course you will have only 24MP , but even if you downsize the 50MP of the Canon to 24MP, Leica files will probably look sharper and reveal more detail without any PP.

 

As others have said, look into the other differences before you switch.

- Do you need zoom?

- Do you need long tele lenses ?

- Do you want fast AF or AF-tracking?

Then maybe the M is not for you.

[jaapv]

The common error. Resolution numbers do NOT correlate with image quality... Having said that, one buys a Leica M for the rangefinder concept. Any other motivation is likely to end in a disappointment. My advice in your case: get an XPro 2.

[ECohen]

I completely disagree. The M is a class on its own when it comes to quality/form factor.

The weight of the body might be not much of a difference, but the size is quite different. Even more so for the size and weight of the lenses. Ever compared a Canon zoom size with a Leica 35mm or 50 mm Summicron?

 

A M240 with lens mounted will easily fit in a large jacket pocket. If you must take an other lens, a tele-Elmarit M 90 mm will fit in the other pocket with room to spare.

 

IQ wise this is a no-brainer to me.

The files from a M240 will easily outperform the 5Ds at base ISO, in my opinion. (sharpness, tones, micro contrast, dynamic range)

 

Take a MM246 and you will even have medium format performance in the same size and weight!

 

Of course you will have only 24MP , but even if you downsize the 50MP of the Canon to 24MP, Leica files will probably look sharper and reveal more detail without any PP.

 

As others have said, look into the other differences before you switch.

- Do you need zoom?

- Do you need long tele lenses ?

- Do you want fast AF or AF-tracking?

Then maybe the M is not for you.

 

I completely agree with this post, as well

except a 240 fitting in a jacket pocket.....you must have a big jacket pocket? ....maybe a winter coat pocket.

[dpitt]

@Ecohen English is not my native language, sorry about the confusion. Of course I meant a large wintercoat pocket. There are several lenses that could be fitted with this in mind, like the 28mm Elmarit, 35cron, 35lux old version, collapsible 50mm Elmartit…

 

One of the main reasons I moved from Nikon to Leica M was the size. It delivered the best performance for the size. No other full frame system camera with exchangeable lenses fits in the same way. 

 

The other reason I like the M is because I wanted to focus manually. Fiddling with focus points and buttons was never my thing…

DSLRs viewfinders are made for AF and slow lenses, so they are not as easy to work with as the SLR from the 60s and seventies. Even exchanging the focussing screen  (if at all possible) will not give the same as older bodies e.g. Nikon FM, F3, Leica SL2, Leica R8…

 

The M is one of the few systems out there that is still designed to focus manually, and this shows.

[ECohen]

I am sorry  dpitt

......I was kidding ....I live in a warm climate and wish my M was more pocketable.

I too came from a Nikon DSLR and completely agree with you!

There is also that wonderfully simple Leica menu, the M is a joy to use.

[FeralCoton]

I switched from a Canon 5d. As others have said, it is a very different experience. Getting used to the rangefinder takes time and getting very good at focusing it takes longer. I had decided that is what I wanted to do basically because of image quality. Images from my canon were great. I loved my camera and my lenses. But the Leica is small, less intrusive (though I wouldn't say light weight, just lighter than the canon). You re-think photos and work more on composition. It takes a lot to change the photography flow, but if it is your sort of thing, then the price premium seems to worth it to me. if you don't wish to change lenses and are happy with 28mm, the Q from my brief experiences with it, I wonderful. The SL is an amazing camera, but do check out the size of its lenses as they make canon lenses appear compact. You could rent an M from lensrentals.com (which I've used) and check it out, but you need to intensively spend some time with the camera to see if it is a flow you like.

 

 

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[zlatkob]

It sounds like the 5DS with 35/1.4L II already far, far exceeds your image quality needs.  At worst, the M240 with 35mm Summilux will merely far exceed your image quality needs.  So with the Leica you will have much less to carry and still have excellent image quality.  Seriously, you have nothing to worry about.  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[zlatkob]

IMHO you should look at the Leica SL with its stellar 24~90 lens.  It should out-resolve the 24-70 2.8L that you probably own for your 5D-s.  

 

 

The OP told us he owns the Canon 35 and 100mm lenses, so the SL's 24-90 would not substitute for anything he has.  The Canon 24-70 version II is a phenomenal lens and is relatively compact for what it is.  The SL 24-90 is rather large, so it goes against the OP's goal of a lighter outfit.

[earleygallery]

I think the best advice we can give the OP is to suggest that he visits a dealer and takes along his Canon gear, so that he can compare the M and lenses directly in terms of size/weight, and more importantly see if he likes the rangefinder way and manual focus, as he's not just looking at a smaller camera but a completely different type of camera.