"Sweet Spot" for ISO best sensor performance

[icqcq]

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Metric Time: you're not the first to suggest it... and, of course, I'm not the first to suggest something different for aperture, almost certainly not the first to propose percentages, but sometimes a nice surprise comes out of thinking what you think someone else has thought, when you discover some little variation along the way. This entire thread, for example, started out in all innocence and has led us deep into technical territory that I think might reward all of us, and, if Anyone Important is reading, might move the medium in a new and improved direction.

Edited March 13, 2016 by icqcq

[pico]

An f1.0 lens has a front element:focal length ratio of 1:1. That's the starting point: f1.0 then becomes Ø100. The aperture currently known as f1.4 allows half the light through that an f1 does, so it becomes Ø50, f2 becomes Ø25, f2.8:Ø12.5, f4:Ø6, f5.6:Ø3, f8:Ø1.5, f11:Ø.75....

 

This at least gives the user a logical progression; since shutter speed is fractions, going with percentages differentiates, while also providing a similar sequence that doesn't require a savant or chart to follow.

 

I must admit that I see no advantage to the percent metric. From habit I know that if I close one stop on lens, I must take one lower shutter speed. It seems so simple. Have I been wrong all these years?

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[pgk]

I have no problem with existing aperture or shutter speed (actually, to be pedantic, indicated by a rounded figure related to duration or time rather than speed which is another rather silly adopted term) as they have not changed and are well established. My problem is shown here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_speed#Digital_camera_ISO_speed_and_exposure_index 

 

Interestingly they refer to Exposure Index (EI) which might have been a useful term to have introduced if it had been adopted early on and widely in order to differentiate digital sensitivity from film speed. There might have been more discussion and understanding of how sensitivity and gain actually operate. It was not to be.

[Exodies]

It would be handy to have a lever to set a number which is the percentage of full cells before the shutter closes.

[epand56]

Some days ago I visited an exhibition of Mr. Salgado's photographs about the coffee farming around the globe.

They were all huge prints and what amazed me was the beautiful grain of the B&W pictures.

Now, maybe it's only me, but I would like Leica manufacturers to try to improve the grain in digital sensor instead of running after 1,000,000 ISO without grain. I would love to have an M that deliver grain pictures similar to film at high ISO.

There is no B&W picture without grain, even the slightest amount, and I would love a Laica that can deliver some good looking grain on high ISO pictures.

Is it only me? Am I fool?

 

Regards,

Enrico

[CheshireCat]

There is no B&W picture without grain, even the slightest amount, and I would love a Laica that can deliver some good looking grain on high ISO pictures.

Is it only me? Am I fool?

 

 

You are not a fool, and you are not alone.

But let the sensor engineers work on delivering a clean picture, and let the software engineers provide postprocessing emulation of the film grain

[lct]

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Would have to be better than Silver Efex Pro. Ever tried the latter? 

[pico]

[...] I would like Leica manufacturers to try to improve the grain in digital sensor instead of running after 1,000,000 ISO without grain. I would love to have an M that deliver grain pictures similar to film at high ISO.

There is no B&W picture without grain, even the slightest amount, and I would love a Laica that can deliver some good looking grain on high ISO pictures.

Is it only me? Am I fool?

 

You are not a fool, of course. Film grain is dark, and digital noise is white. Grain can contribute to acutance (appearance of sharpness). I agree that it is important. I hate that Kodak quietly changed Tri-X long ago.

[keith_lee]

Some days ago I visited an exhibition of Mr. Salgado's photographs about the coffee farming around the globe.

They were all huge prints and what amazed me was the beautiful grain of the B&W pictures.

Now, maybe it's only me, but I would like Leica manufacturers to try to improve the grain in digital sensor instead of running after 1,000,000 ISO without grain. I would love to have an M that deliver grain pictures similar to film at high ISO.

There is no B&W picture without grain, even the slightest amount, and I would love a Laica that can deliver some good looking grain on high ISO pictures.

Is it only me? Am I fool?

 

Regards,

Enrico

The exhibition prints I saw at the Leica Gallery in San Francisco of Sebastian Salgado's work came from scanned film negatives which were then digitally printed. I enjoyed the appearance of grain in those shots, even when seen on digital media.

[pico]

Grain? You want grain?

.

 

Kodak 2475 recording film

[atournas]

Very frightening conversation! It leaves me with the feeling that I may need a PhD from MIT to improve my photography. And I was about to apply at the Royal Academy of Arts. 

 

Paul