LocalHero1953 Posted December 23, 2015 Share #81 Posted December 23, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica is giving away (almost all) important benefits of mirrorless EVF cameras. (Currently Olympus does it best) I have just passed my Em5-ii to my wife because I found the Olympus interface non-intuitive, and the buttons appear to have been sprayed on at random (I don't have experience of Sony etc, so I have no reason to think Olympus is worse than any of the others). I find the SL interface intuitive and rational in comparison - I learned it mainly without consulting the manual. I fully expect my wife to find the Olympus too irritating as well, so it will probably be on the market eventually. These are subjective matters. I agree with you about 1. 2 is already there as an option. 3,4,and 5 come into the nice-to-have category for me. TBH, now I understand the basics of the camera, there are few things I need to programme to the buttons: ISO, Exp Comp, Display, and occasionally Screen Info are all I touch, so I have a few unused buttons. I guess I might use AE Lock if it was a toggle function, but I don't miss it. But I accept others may want more customisation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Leica SL Firmware Suggestions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mirage Posted December 24, 2015 Share #82 Posted December 24, 2015 #2 is already implemented with Exposure Simulation mode (two presses on the FN button). #4 "Toggle option for AE" ? do you mean AE-Lock? Thank You for the hint on #2! And yes, I meant AE-Lock. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirage Posted December 24, 2015 Share #83 Posted December 24, 2015 I have just passed my Em5-ii to my wife because I found the Olympus interface non-intuitive, and the buttons appear to have been sprayed on at random (I don't have experience of Sony etc, so I have no reason to think Olympus is worse than any of the others). I find the SL interface intuitive and rational in comparison - I learned it mainly without consulting the manual. I fully expect my wife to find the Olympus too irritating as well, so it will probably be on the market eventually. These are subjective matters. I agree with you about 1. 2 is already there as an option. 3,4,and 5 come into the nice-to-have category for me. TBH, now I understand the basics of the camera, there are few things I need to programme to the buttons: ISO, Exp Comp, Display, and occasionally Screen Info are all I touch, so I have a few unused buttons. I guess I might use AE Lock if it was a toggle function, but I don't miss it. But I accept others may want more customisation. I fully agree with You, my Olympus "OMD EM-1" (worst name in camera history) lacks the clean, straightforward design of the SL (and other Leica) cameras. Also it has too many customization options and unnecessary buttons and switches. But as soon is set up to your liking, the user experience (currently) beats the SL (and all Sony mirrorless cameras) by far. But with the IQ and processing power of the SL, and a proper firmware at last (!) Type601 could be king of all EVF cameras (despite Sony-s higher res sensors). The Sony offerings (I had the A7r, my wife has the A7rII) just do not feel right - and are full of unnecessary gimmicks. Truth is, today's EVF camera users are early adapters of a new technology, which is full of design flaws based on "design traditions" and – on the other side of the spectrum – tech gimmicks no real photographer needs. After the Q, I trust Leica most to show the way into a new era, but with the SL, the company did not delivered (yet). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaFotografie Posted December 24, 2015 Share #84 Posted December 24, 2015 I think the name of the one and only SL lense isn't correct in the firmware today:it's called "Vario-Elmarit ..." - this should be "Vario-Elmarit-SL ..." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 24, 2015 Share #85 Posted December 24, 2015 I fully agree with You, my Olympus "OMD EM-1" (worst name in camera history) lacks the clean, straightforward design of the SL (and other Leica) cameras. Also it has too many customization options and unnecessary buttons and switches. But as soon is set up to your liking, the user experience (currently) beats the SL (and all Sony mirrorless cameras) by far. You may agree with me, but I don't agree with you! My subjective user experience with the Olympus was poor, even after I set it up. Still too many buttons in odd places with labels that don't relate to their customised use, profiles that are too easily accidentally switched to other settings, too many options that cannot be set together. I could not trust it to remain as set up, and had to spend too long checking everything was it should be before use. It all worked as it should, it had a large number of features and options, IQ was excellent, but it was not a camera that got out of my way in use. YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 24, 2015 Share #86 Posted December 24, 2015 I dunno. I like my Oly E-M1 and will miss it when it's gone. I had been working with Olympus gear for a while when it was released and have a good feel for the Olympus command set's logic. The extreme configurability takes time to learn; the controls are generally nicely placed for what I need to muck with. And the whole system is compact, light, and quick in use. But the SL performs better, I like the controls even more, and I have lenses for it that I like more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirage Posted December 24, 2015 Share #87 Posted December 24, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) You may agree with me, but I don't agree with you! My subjective user experience with the Olympus was poor, even after I set it up. Still too many buttons in odd places with labels that don't relate to their customised use, profiles that are too easily accidentally switched to other settings, too many options that cannot be set together. I could not trust it to remain as set up, and had to spend too long checking everything was it should be before use. It all worked as it should, it had a large number of features and options, IQ was excellent, but it was not a camera that got out of my way in use. YMMV. Yes. My SL does not confuse me at all. Especially the big dial on top, which has absolute no function (I usually shoot in aperture priority mode, as most of us). The biggest UI element on the camera – it's just there. Brilliant. I also have two focus enlargement aid buttons now, which work differently. But no confusion here, as the original button is set to the only unreachable place by default (except one has three hands or a long tongue). But again, I agree with You: Olympus is the other extreme. Nobody managed to make a "good enough" EVF camera on the market yet, but for now, Leica seems to be the most confused of them all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 24, 2015 Share #88 Posted December 24, 2015 ... Nobody managed to make a "good enough" EVF camera on the market yet, but for now, Leica seems to be the most confused of them all. I disagree, I find the Olympus E-M1 to be a very well developed, very ergonomic, EVF camera with excellent features. It's even been added to since I bought it in 2013 with three major firmware updates that have added a bunch of new capabilities. Dissing the camera type and especially the SL because it's a brand new camera and many things are still "in development" seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about both the technology and about Leica in particular. That's not worth debating for me, but I do disagree with your assessment entirely. The SL, just as it is, is a very fine camera, the best EVF camera yet after the E-M1 for me. And I expect it to get even better as Leica develops the firmware moving forwards. (And before someone pipes in with the Sony A7—I had one, and sold it after a year of fighting with it, trying to get what I wanted out of it. I wouldn't consider going that way again. Doesn't suit me, although it may suit you.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirage Posted December 24, 2015 Share #89 Posted December 24, 2015 Dissing the camera type and especially the SL because it's a brand new camera and many things are still "in development" seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about both the technology and about Leica in particular. I am not dissing anything (read carefully). My criticism is constructive. But also I can not show any fanboy-like patience towards a € 10K+ "professional" product, which is neither finished nor properly tested. By the way I own and use all mentioned systems – desperately hoping for Leica to listen and bring out a firmware, which is really tailored to the hardware, and not some quickly adapted stuff. Meanwhile Merry Christmas to all beta testing professionals around! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haydenc Posted December 24, 2015 Share #90 Posted December 24, 2015 I would also like to see you able to customize the 2 dials. Especially for me as I intend to use the camera with M and R lenses almost exclusively. Right now in A mode both dials do nothing. It would be great to have exposure comp on the back dial without having to push a button first. And the other one would be good to be able to toggle ISO. At least in M mode the main dial controls shutter speed. The other request for me would be to have the ability to change the brightness of the EVF. Currently the T has LCD and EVF brightness as separate controls. It might just be my camera, but my EVF is not bright enough for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted December 29, 2015 Share #91 Posted December 29, 2015 I would also like to see you able to customize the 2 dials. Especially for me as I intend to use the camera with M and R lenses almost exclusively. Right now in A mode both dials do nothing. It would be great to have exposure comp on the back dial without having to push a button first. And the other one would be good to be able to toggle ISO. At least in M mode the main dial controls shutter speed. The other request for me would be to have the ability to change the brightness of the EVF. Currently the T has LCD and EVF brightness as separate controls. It might just be my camera, but my EVF is not bright enough for me. I agree totally. - Direct control of exposure comp is A,S &P mode with the top wheel which sits there proud and useless. - menu setting of the EVF brightness/contrast/colour balance and implementation the same way as it's done on the M with EVF. And remove link between EVF brightness and exposure compensation. Also want: - Ability to have peaking AND level at the same time (or peaking AND histogram). - Ability to program bottom left button to something other than focus assist. - Ability to choose to move focus assist box before magnification. - Ability to have focus assist box remember its position. - Ability to have FEC (flash exposure compensation) assigned directly to a button. - Add ability to set GPS ping timing to help save battery. Suggest 1min, 10 min, 30 min and 2 hour options. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Walker Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share #92 Posted December 29, 2015 I'd prefer that the focus cross / rectangle returns to its home position in the centre of the frame when changing focus modes and / or user profiles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted December 29, 2015 Share #93 Posted December 29, 2015 I agree totally. - Direct control of exposure comp is A,S &P mode with the top wheel which sits there proud and useless. Gordon I have customized the front function button to activate the exposure compensation and I use the back wheel with thumb. And that constantly looking in the EVF. The top wheel is not as well ergonomically positioned in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted December 29, 2015 Share #94 Posted December 29, 2015 I have customized the front function button to activate the exposure compensation and I use the back wheel with thumb. And that constantly looking in the EVF. The top wheel is not as well ergonomically positioned in my opinion. For me it's the top right. I can reach that without moving my eye. But in A,T and when using manual lenses it seems a shame not to have the option of using an otherwise useless dial as a direct control. For me I'd love to have it as an option. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted December 29, 2015 Share #95 Posted December 29, 2015 I'd prefer that the focus cross / rectangle returns to its home position in the centre of the frame when changing focus modes and / or user profiles. Sure. Even when powering off the camera. It's just a shame I need to move the position every single time I touch the shutter. It should be an option, not the only way. Some prefer the return to centre. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted December 29, 2015 Share #96 Posted December 29, 2015 For me it's the top right. I can reach that without moving my eye. But in A,T and when using manual lenses it seems a shame not to have the option of using an otherwise useless dial as a direct control. For me I'd love to have it as an option. Gordon I don't. I have an history of brushing unlocked exposure compensation wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMB Posted December 29, 2015 Share #97 Posted December 29, 2015 I beg you pardon for repeating what I’ve said in another topic but it seems to me is better to post it in this one. I ask myself if it would be possible in the next firmware for SL camera, in photo recording mode, to maintain always active the "light balance for manual exposure setting/exposure compensation value", (even in all kind of modes and exposure settings) as if we were always working in Manual Mode. Then we could be alerted about any kind of under / overexposure in all circumstances, using Auto Iso or any automatic settings. IMHO with the system I propose you have an immediate vision not only about if you have an exposure problem but besides you have how much the deviation is, according the points appeared in one or other direction (red/white).. Also you see when panning the camera what happens with your photometer along the scene. Francisco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted January 2, 2016 Share #98 Posted January 2, 2016 I'll repeat a point that has been made before, but it just bit me. I hit picture #1000 on my second card, and sure enough, it jumped to folder 101, picture #1. That's just dumb! My request is that we return to the facility that was developed on the M8, M9 and M series, in which you can assign a folder name or number, and picture numbers can increase up to 9999, not limited to 999 scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted January 3, 2016 Share #99 Posted January 3, 2016 I'll repeat a point that has been made before, but it just bit me. I hit picture #1000 on my second card, and sure enough, it jumped to folder 101, picture #1. That's just dumb! My request is that we return to the facility that was developed on the M8, M9 and M series, in which you can assign a folder name or number, and picture numbers can increase up to 9999, not limited to 999 scott ...... out of interest, I assume you started with the default L100 xxxx as card naming/numbering ....... ???? I had assumed it was a result of me renaming the folders as I have multiple cameras ..... but if not then it is clearly a more fundamental bug in the firmware ....... it should go to 9999 before this happens...... The folder renaming bit in the manual is vague to say the least ...... The issue exists on the Q as well and has never been corrected. ........ any chance you can email Leica Technical Support about it ? ....... I have .... twice ..... but the more they get the more likely it is to be fixed ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted January 3, 2016 Share #100 Posted January 3, 2016 ...... out of interest, I assume you started with the default L100 xxxx as card naming/numbering ....... ???? .... ........ any chance you can email Leica Technical Support about it ? ....... I have .... twice ..... but the more they get the more likely it is to be fixed ...... Yes, I started with two 32 GB cards, formatting them both in the camera in slots 1 and 2. Card 2 did not at first have any folder defined for the actual jpgs and dngs. When I filled card 1, the SL created a folder 100 on card 2 and continued the numbering (I had reached about 800 shots). So I removed card 1 and put card 2 in the top slot. I kept shooting and noticed that I soon had two folders, with folder 101 starting over at file 1... I'll send in my comment above. I've already been bugging them about the broken R lens profiles, but Leica sent everyone home for two weeks over Christmas, so I might wait a few days before adding to the workload... scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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