Question for Guy and Others Feel Free to Chip In!

[ozdavid]

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Guy,

Thank you for your comments on the 75 'cron. I wiil go out and experiment further at the different apertures you mentioned. Currently shooting MP and M7 but my M8 is due any day.

Thank you all to for the discussion about lighting. It reminds me how much I don't know (or have forgotten from the days in the 70's when I used to do more lighting work) but inspires me to go and try some more. It is very helpful.

Thanks all again.

Regards

David

[Guest guy_mancuso]

So to continue, I shot this one awhile back but just reprocessed it in C1 with there new default with the IR filter on with the 75 lux here but this profile is very accurate in color.

 

Again this is a 4 lighting setup and here a lot of control to keep the main and fill off the background in a small space. Otherwise the background would have washed out. These are shot with those Dynalite twinkle monlights i was mentioning. Also Alan mentioned Allen Bees and White lightning which are not very expensive and do a nice job for monolights. Shot with the M8 of course but the firmware was beta 1.102 i believe which went public since than. I think i shot this at F4

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[barjohn]

I think your shot above is fantastic! Did she like it?

 

I'm sure you have seen the facial portrait shots of women that are shot with large pupils (considered a sexy look on women) like the youg girl on the prior page. How do you get those shots in the studio when the bright catch lights would tend to make the pupils get smaller?

[Guest guy_mancuso]

She really loved them and her husband was estatic . He was the one that pushed her to be photographed which i think was great for a new dad.

 

Well on the pupils that is were strobe comes in, no time for the pupil to shut down on the flash and modeling lamps are not that bright to really close the pupil . Also the lights are more to the side than directly looking into them. people usually say they blinked when a shot is taken , what really happens is they blink after the strobe went off. There eye is just not fast enough for the strobes and it happens after the exposure. But continous lights that are bright pupils can shut down to compensate. our eyes are automatic apertures and will shut the pupil down to adjust for the light. Great question

[dfarkas]

Guy,

 

I think you forgot to mention a category of lighting - portable power packs. The Profoto and Elinchrom are exceptional performers.

 

A couple of points when evaluating lighitng choices. Not all lighting is created equal. In general, as with many things, you get what you pay for. Here are a few tangibles beyond the "look and feel" of the light (which is important as well, but harder to define):

 

• Consistency, both in power and color temp. Cheap lighitng tends to vary in color temp as you change the power level and with usage as the flash tube heats up. Better lighting like Profoto, Elinchrom, Broncolor may vary only +/- 100 deg K over the entire power range. There are some brands that will vary more than 600 deg K! This can be especially problematic if you are using multiple lights at varying power levels in the same shot. Shot-to-shot consistency can also be weak in cheaper lighting. Power levels and color may vary between shots.
   
  
• Modifiers. Lighting goes way beyond umbrellas and the better brands have a large selection of top-quality and unique modifiers that mount easily and quickly. Reflectors like the Elinchrom Maxi-Lite or the Profoto Magnum create the illusion of sunlight and can throw light over long distances without losing power. Beauty dishes are another great modifier that lends a gorgeous glow to skin. Elinchrom Rotalux softboxes are magic for portraiture. The list goes on.
   
  
• Durability. Good lights are designed to last for years of daily use. My associate Andre uses his Profoto Pro-7b battery pack almost every single day since he got it about 2 years ago. He hasn't had to change the flashtube in his Pro-B Head yet, even after about 250,000 flashes (yes 250K!). This is also the same head that fell into the ocean a few months ago while it was powered on and made some really bad popping sounds at the time. The Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed pack is completely weather sealed and can be used in pouring rain. These are not flimsly or shodily built packs.
   
  
• Control. The Elinchrom Ranger RX has a power range of 5.7Ws - 1100 Ws in 1/10th of a stop increments, digitally controlled. Entry-level lighting usually just has an analog slider or knob that gives a smaller power range. In concert with a decent light meter, these lights can nail exposure exactly, every single time, without having to scrim or move the light stand just to get that little "tweak".
   
  
• Speed and Battery Life. Both the Pro-7b and the Ranger RX Speed recycle to full power in 2.8 seconds. This is as good as many A/C units. The Profoto B2 can recycle to a full 1200 Ws in 1.8 seconds. Truly studio performance in the field. Twice the price, but who's counting? Both units get about 3,000 shots on one battery charge at "average" power levels.
   
  
• Flash duration. Both these units have flash durations at around 1/3,000 sec. Most monolights and run-of-the-mill studio packs are in the 1/750 sec range. The king of flash duration is the Profoto Pro-7a A/C studio pack. It does its thing at 1/12,000 sec - fast enough to stop water, sand, a bullet, etc. Faster flash durations make for sharper details and a crisper look, because your actual exposure is much shorter than the 1/250th the camera syncs at.
  

Keep in mind that these packs put out 1100 - 1200 Ws of power. You would need about 10 Metz 54s at full power to achieve this much light. The Ranger RX will put out f/64 at 6ft and full power with a standard umbrella releflector. Change out for a Maxi-Lite reflector and you will get f/128. The same combo will give you f/16 from about 35ft away. This is some serious light which can easily overpower the sun.

 

Do we all need lighting? No, but once you get used to using portable power packs, it is really hard to go back. The color, detail, tone, and dimensionality you get from location lighting is unmistakable. Add in total control for the photographer and you have a highly addictive photographic tool. And then, of course, you need at least two, if not three...

 

If you'd like to see true mastery of all things lighitng, check out Andre Rowe's photography at his OneModelPlace profile. 99% of all the shots on his profile are done with lighting (Profoto and Elinchrom only), even the ones that look like they aren't. Many of the pictures are shot on film (6x7 chrome) and the digital ones are shot in JPEG (I've grown tired of trying to convince him of the benefits of RAW). Andre is certainly prolific. He has a folder of current finished shots that has about 2,200 images in it. He started adding to this folder as of August of last year. He and I do one-day location lighting workshops and love to show how the magic is done. If we have enough interest, we are planning a 4-day workshop in the Bahamas later this year.

 

David

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Thanks David , i knew i was missing something. LOL

 

On that same line with regular packs you can still go portable with a Dynalite XP 1100 cine battery which i do own one and does power quite a bit of light but it is 23 lbs of battery.

 

http://www.dynalite.com/fxp1100_n.html

[AlanG]

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Battery and AC systems.

 

Battery units are very handy. I use them to light up houses at dusk or as a key light on houses when they are in total shade. (You need a lot of power for this.) I've found many other uses for battery units outside and inside. However it sometimes is a pain to maintain all of the batteries and keep them charged. I have a total of 6 battery systems (3 Norman 200Bs and 3 large Balcar packs.) Coming home from a job and charging all of that along with my camera batteries and the batteries in my radio controls and other units takes some effort. I have inverters in my work truck and try to re-charge as units get depleted so that the batteries will always be fully charged and ready. (However, I really don't use many battery units very often any more unless they are necessary.)

 

I think it is clear there are a number of choices that will give satisfactory results for most people. If you have truly special needs then you have to investigate the gear carefully. Some of the specialized and expensive models may be your only real choice. I have a number of expensive battery systems, but if I were starting out fresh, I'd most likely go with the Alien Bees 1600s, their wireless radio control units (that allow complete remote control of each light including 1/10 stop repeatable digital adjustment, etc.) and their Vagabond battery packs. I have not found another brand with a similar remote radio system. If you are doing portraits, this won't matter so much as your lights won't be spread out so far. But even for portraits, I like to be able to adjust the power of the lights from the camera.

 

As a comparison. The best and most pwerful Balcar battery system that I own is the Concept B3 combined with 3 PSU4 (1600ws) light heads. This is sort of a hybrid monolight system. Each head has copasitors in it and can be controlled by the B3 battery unit or an AC unit. The B3 unit weighs about 25 lbs and allows the adjustment of each head in 1/10 stop over a very wide range. (15ws to 1600ws including switches on the heads) It is all digital and can recycle in about 4 seconds per 1600 ws. So I can get 4800ws in about 12 seconds. The battery will do about 250 1600ws flashes per charge. Three heads ($1100 each) and the pack ($2500) plus cords, etc. - total cost about $6000. And you have to run wires from the heads to the pack. The AC pack cost about $1200. None of this is made any more.

 

The Alien Bees 1600 are rated at 640 true ws but put out slightly more light than my Balcar 1600s. (Yeah I couldn't believe it until I tested it) They use the same Balcar reflectors and modifiers and cost about $360 each. The whole unit is only about $150 more than a Balcar flash tube. A system of 4 units is only $1440 plus $520 for the radio transmitter and 4 receivers. (Plus there are further discounts when you buy so much at one time.) I have not used their Vagabond battery system but my assistant has one and says it works great. The more powerful Vagabond V300 will recycle one Alien Bee 1600 in 2 seconds and will deliver about 400 flash per charge. Two units will take 4 seconds to recycle. It only costs $500 and can drive several heads or you can buy a few of them if you need fast recycling or don't want to run wires. The V150 Vagabond recycles slower and only costs $350.

 

I own a total of 10 Balcar PSU heads, 3 Balcar AC packs and 3 Balcar battery packs (maybe about $20,000 invested) and I rarely take along anything but one of the battery units and two heads. However I bring 3 White Lightnings and 4 Alien Bees on all jobs. I've used the White Lightnings as my primary units for about 5 years and the Alien Bees for about one and they have all been great. Mine have the UV filtered flash tubes and have produced excellent color and repeatablity. My assistant keeps telling me to ditch the Balcars and buy a couple of Vagabond battery packs. This probably would be more convenient as I'd only be using one system. So there you have it, just one man's opinion.

 

By the way, the Alien Bees come in a variety of bright colors. I know we are used to professional black and silver, but I bought one of each color. That way I can tell my assistant - "scrim the pink unit" or "move the yellow one a foot higher." I was on a job once and the owner of the house looked at the light and said "Alien Bee, that's an interesting name." We both chuckled. No need to be too serious I figure.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Been setting here going back and reprocessing a couple in C1 with there new profile and ran across this image of my daughter. Shot with a 75 lux at F4. Must be nice to have nice skin and what a difference compared to some of the old man portraits.

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[barjohn]

In looking at Andre Rowe's photography (very beautiful) I noticed that virtually all of the women have no skin pores and imperfections showing, even on the head shots. Is this because of:

a) the lighting,

these girls have perfectly smooth skin, pores are almost invisible

c) the photos have been touched up in Photoshop to make the skin look that way,

d) the camera and lens, i.e. very long lens compressing pores etc, or

e) something else?

 

For example, in Guy's pregnant lady you can clearly see that she has very nice skin but the pores are still visible on her face and other parts of her body. Same is true of his head shots earlier.

[barjohn]

Guy, you left off the image.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Usually John it is all about airbrushing. LOL

 

But young women skin is hard to beat. Plus you normally have professional makeup artist too on fashion shoots

 

BTW no airbrushing done on the pregnant women but i could easily make her skin very smooth in PS

[dfarkas]

In looking at Andre Rowe's photography (very beautiful) I noticed that virtually all of the women have no skin pores and imperfections showing, even on the head shots. Is this because of:

a) the lighting,

these girls have perfectly smooth skin, pores are almost invisible

c) the photos have been touched up in Photoshop to make the skin look that way,

d) the camera and lens, i.e. very long lens compressing pores etc, or

e) something else?

 

For example, in Guy's pregnant lady you can clearly see that she has very nice skin but the pores are still visible on her face and other parts of her body. Same is true of his head shots earlier.

 

The answer is f) all of the above.

 

Andre uses the Elinchrom 53" Octa softbox quite a bit for in-studio headshots. This gives really soft, pleasing light with plenty of wraparound. The light is very close to the subject. He aslo uses mirrors as reflectors on a table in front of the model (out of shot). Some shots are one single light, others have up to seven lights. He has no set "formula". Andre is always aspiring to try new techniques, modifiers, and achieve different looks.

 

Yes, the girls are all profressional (or aspiring) models. On that page are a Miss FHM, an America's Next Top Model finalist, and one or two Playboy models. Models do generally have good skin, but there are a few noteable exceptions to that rule. Often, lifestyle plays a big role.

 

Yes, the photos have been touched up in Photoshop. Andre, like me, NEVER uses any softening techniques. No dodging or burning either (he is far too busy and lazy). The only touch up is done via the healing brush, in moderation.

 

Andre uses a large variety of cameras and lenses. His main system is a Mamiya RZ 67. He has almost all the RZ lenses to go with it, save 2 I think. Top choices for film are either Provia 100 or E100GX. Secondary is the Nikon D2X, which he uses a lot with the 60 Micro, 70-200, 200 f/2, and 50 f/1.8. He occasionally uses the Canon 5D, but pretty infrequently. Also, still finds an excuse to use his old Minolta and R7 for 35mm. His latest love is extremely out-dated pro films (7+ years). Recently, I've helped fuel his addiction for the DMR, especially with the 100 APO-Macro and 90 AA. Sadly, he refuses to try the M8. I think he doesn't want to fall in love with another camera system at this point.

 

And, yes, Guy is correct. There is often a very talented hair and makeup person on set. For a period of time, Andre shot a series of "natural" headshots, with one light, one fan, and no makeup. They became very popular with models and he became very bored of them. For the most part, though, there is really good makeup. A few of the artists he works with specialize in airbrush-applied makeup. Super smooth and even, just takes an hour to apply. It actually looks like Photoshop in real life...almost too perfect. With the prices we are used to paying for Leica, a makeup artist for $100 is not too expensive an accesory.

 

Hopefully answers the riddle.

 

David

[barjohn]

This is in line with what I thought. Years ago, when I had my own company, I hired an ad agency and models for a few shoots and we had a mke up artist on set. While the models have generally great skin, it usually isn't perfect and close-ups reveal the minor flaws when you look for them. Very few women with skin like the model Sigma uses for their SD-14 advertisements where you can see the pores but they are small and virtually perfect.

[Jamie Roberts]

Hey! I finally found this thread again And here I thought it *was* M8 specific--just kidding...

 

@ Scott, just wanted to post those eyes from the natural light shots at a larger size so you could see what an urban environment can do.

 

For the waterfall shot, I really didn't need a reflector at all--the concrete in front of him was all that was necessary. This englarged 200% from the original...

 

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For the soldier's eyes, a lot more grass around, and it was raining. But still enough to print a catchlight (If I'd had more time for this shot, I would have definitely used a reflector--not a flash--to create a better catchlight).

 

300% enlargement. What's amazing is in the 8 * 10 prints you can see the light in the eyes

 

[Jamie Roberts]

And finally, a quick couple more "really wides" for folks to ponder...

 

First, here's a shot where the M8 really contributed. This is a portrait inside BCE place in Toronto, where I've seen a lot of folks stopped with their "pro-looking" gear. But no-one bothers me with an M8 and no flash!

 

And a CV 21. A really sweet little lens on the M8. This is shot with a Leica filter, no lens coding. For this web shot, I didn't bother to remove the cyan, but I will later.

 

The difference in exposure in here was about 4 stops between the background and the foreground. So this is a merge of two separate RAW develops (something you can nicely do in RAW without resorting to false profiles, etc..)

 

All natural light coming in through the skylights.

 

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And, lest you think I never use strobe, here is one the client wanted with the Toronto skyline intact. It was a very hazy day outside, so no blue sky. I haven't decided if I will make one or not yet; I'm leaning towards not:)

 

The background was 6 stops brighter than the foreground. If you exposed for the foreground (and there was plenty of beautiful light there), then you'd be sunk for the cityscape.

 

So I took the background exposure at my fastest synch speed (250) and then rigged up one Elinchrome 400ws strobe with a PW and an umbrella bounced off the white ceiling and feathered to the side to give him a nice, fairly natural shadow.

 

I still ended up doing twin RAW converts in C1 to balance the highlights with the shadows, but it's all there, at least! I also pushed the skin tones a wee bit more to red than I might usually; I like the balance against the green of the towers.

 

This is a Canon 5d crop with a modded R19 Elmarit.

 

[GMB]

Sorry if this i a really dumm question, but I am an amateur who never used studio lightning. If I want to use a portable set with, say, two light, how do I "connect" those to my M8 and how so I synchronise them with the M8 (or M7 for that matter)? Thanks.

[Jamie Roberts]

Not a dumb question at all.

 

Studio strobes will synch from the hotshoe to the strobe input through an adapter. The second strobe will synch with the first through an optical eye that watches for the strobe itself.

 

That's the cheapest way to do this... wired to one head from the camera's hotshoe (in this case) and then optically from the key light to the fill.

 

I use Pocket Wizard radio connections from the M8 to the various flashes; that way, there's no cord to trip over, and no line-of-sight for the secondary optically tripped flash. They work like a champ.

 

As for synch, any shutter speed below 200 you should be ok (some flashes / systems will even work ok with 1/250, IIRC).