joe1888 Posted August 5, 2015 Share #161 Posted August 5, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Can someone clarify - does the fact that this is an optic-electronic viewfinder automatically mean AF lenses? The M 240 has everything for AF except: -lens with motor -connection for communication between camera and lens -firmware for AF capability Maybe Leica had a good reason for delaying AF. An optical-electronic viewfinder is a big change for an M. It would be better accepted with introduction of AF at the same time. Maybe the M240 with AF freezes every 30 seconds and they cancel AF in the very last second. Who knows? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Hi joe1888, Take a look here NEW M.. This year.. This Fall.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
AndreasAM Posted August 5, 2015 Share #162 Posted August 5, 2015 My guess is that at its most basic, this development means an enhancement to the existing rangefinder, enabling focus confirmation of non-RF coupled lenses, while maintaining the RF coupling for M lenses. That would mean accurate focusing without live view (or EVF) ... which would be a Good thing ... Enabling focus confirmation of non-RF coupled lenses would be impossible. The camera wouldn't know which lens is attached. For the opto-electronic RF, the sensor in the M-mount, the 6 bit coding of the M-lens and the electronic contacts of an AF (T-)lens are required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted August 5, 2015 Share #163 Posted August 5, 2015 Manual selection of non-coded lenses (as we had with the M9)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai_Print Posted August 5, 2015 Share #164 Posted August 5, 2015 I made the mistake originally of putting a leather case on my m240 making it thicker and a tad heavier! Recently removed permanently and an improvement in comfort but STILL too heavy. I also tried the grip....more weight....doesn't work for me. The thumbs up helps, but I like to use the EVF so the thumbs is out. My preferred 'carry all day' is the Leica T. Am considering the Q as well. The M240, I have to be on a dedicated shooting day to desire to have it with me. I also have a shoulder injury from carrying too much camera gear many years ago so have to be real careful. It reawakened last year after getting the M240 and carrying around every day. I was literally out of commission for a month! Now, if have the M with me, very careful to put it across the opposite shoulder. It reached a tipping point in weight. I hear you on the swapping shoulders, I am still getting over a rotator cuff injury sustained in February after slipping on ice. When ever I go from my M6TTL to my M240, I notice a big difference in weight and handling. So I have put some griptac material to the left of the thumbwheel and up the ramp that leads to it, a fantastic difference in handling without the bulk of a thumbs up. I think if Leica is stuck at this thickness that has to accommodate the flange to film plane distance plus sensor and LCD, then they ought break away from the sleek no dips and dents M design and put some indents in the body that shrink it down a bit and present a better ergonomic solution. This would be better than grip attachments, thumb rests and what not that add to the bulk of the body. Imagine a R&D M body that was made out of heat molded material that formed to your hand. If you squeezed that R&D body a bit, the indents left over are what I think they need to do to the digital M to bring up to date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreasAM Posted August 5, 2015 Share #165 Posted August 5, 2015 Manual selection of non-coded lenses (as we had with the M9)? Yes, combined with the possibility of reading the movement of the rollever of the M-lens with a sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted August 5, 2015 Share #166 Posted August 5, 2015 I can see it now... On Monday, Leica delivers large quantities of Q into its distribution system, and the hundreds on Queue (sorry about that) get their cameras to enjoy and behold. Tuesday and Wednesday are greats days of happiness in the Leica World, and managers in Wetzlar exhale. By Thursday, dealer stocks of Q are fattening a bit. On Friday, Leica announces a new Q-inspired interchangeable lens body that accepts legacy M lenses. As beautiful as the Q is, the new body is truly a Meisterstueck and uses the Maestro Zenith processor to allow for a sensor with M-lens-friendly micro lenses and special Quasilux firmware to beautify the spatial and optical aberrations produced by a new line of Q-type lenses. On the following Monday, the market for M lenses rebounds worldwide and shortages begin to appear. Buyers get on lists again. The trade-in market for Q's falls into Sony territory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kilmister Posted August 5, 2015 Share #167 Posted August 5, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) As a child I used to ask my mother what was for supper. She always replied, "Wait and see." 'Wait and see' is a good philosophy. I am prepared to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted August 5, 2015 Share #168 Posted August 5, 2015 The M 240 has everything for AF except: -lens with motor -connection for communication between camera and lens -firmware for AF capability It doesn’t have an AF sensor either. The M (Typ 240) has nothing to support AF. Maybe the M240 with AF freezes every 30 seconds and they cancel AF in the very last second. Who knows? There is no M (Typ 240) with AF. There never was. (There was a prototype with focus confirmation but that feature got scrapped as it didn’t work reliably enough to be useful.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted August 6, 2015 Share #169 Posted August 6, 2015 That would then suggest that this new rangefinder is primarily aimed at a new M camera. Any AF solution will be a different system? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bab Posted August 6, 2015 Share #170 Posted August 6, 2015 joe1888, on 05 Aug 2015 - 14:14, said: The M 240 has everything for AF except:-lens with motor-connection for communication between camera and lens-firmware for AF capability It doesn’t have an AF sensor either. The M (Typ 240) has nothing to support AF. joe1888, on 05 Aug 2015 - 14:14, said: Maybe the M240 with AF freezes every 30 seconds and they cancel AF in the very last second. Who knows? There is no M (Typ 240) with AF. There never was. (There was a prototype with focus confirmation but that feature got scrapped as it didn’t work reliably enough to be useful.) Edited by mjh, Today, 15:22. neither does the rangefinder currently in use but they still produce it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe1888 Posted August 6, 2015 Share #171 Posted August 6, 2015 Here is a photoshopped M 240 to see what happens with two sensors next to the viewfinder. I cut the external sensor for exposure. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248322-new-m-this-year-this-fall/?do=findComment&comment=2867246'>More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted August 6, 2015 Share #172 Posted August 6, 2015 Looks like a M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted August 6, 2015 Share #173 Posted August 6, 2015 As far as I'm concerned, I don't see any advantage of the electronic rf vs optical rf. they both use the roller arm, and may be subject to miscalibrations. The advantage would be only savings for Leica, which doesn't necessarily reflect on the consumer pricing. I have no interest in such a device, and it would take away from the handcrafted quality aspect and probably from the user experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe1888 Posted August 6, 2015 Share #174 Posted August 6, 2015 I don't see any advantage of the electronic rf vs optical rf. -no finder blockage with big lenses -preview exposure, colour and contrast -shows more viewfinder infos -lenses under 28mm and over 135mm -maybe more precisely -maybe it's possible to shift the rangefinder patch -optical viewfinder is only one click away and maybe it's possible to shift the rangefinder patch also Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 6, 2015 Share #175 Posted August 6, 2015 As far as I'm concerned, I don't see any advantage of the electronic rf vs optical rf. they both use the roller arm, and may be subject to miscalibrations. The advantage would be only savings for Leica [...] We could fix more easily miscalibrations ourselves perhaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe1888 Posted August 6, 2015 Share #176 Posted August 6, 2015 they both use the roller arm, and may be subject to miscalibrations. There must be microadjustment in the camera menu. Leica can't do it without microadjustment, because of CS costs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted August 6, 2015 Share #177 Posted August 6, 2015 Not sure we're talking about the same thing. The electronic rf still uses the main ovf, so there is still vf blockage, and inaccurate frames, and no exposure preview. If you're talking about an EVF based camera, then yes, I would like to have one to use side by side with the classic M. But in terms of electronic rf, I would still prefer the good old way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 6, 2015 Share #178 Posted August 6, 2015 -no finder blockage with big lenses -preview exposure, colour and contrast -shows more viewfinder infos -lenses under 28mm and over 135mm [...] Not really avantages of the elecronic RF per se. We have them with the M240 already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 6, 2015 Share #179 Posted August 6, 2015 Not sure we're talking about the same thing. The electronic rf still uses the main ovf, so there is still vf blockage, and inaccurate frames, and no exposure preview. If you're talking about an EVF based camera, then yes, I would like to have one to use side by side with the classic M. But in terms of electronic rf, I would still prefer the good old way The frames might be more accurate as the Bildfeldschwund can be programmed in. However, the angle of view for wideangles is determined by the optical viewfinder and the accuracy for longer focal lengths by the baseline of the RF windows, so that would be no different from an optical system either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkonkkrete Posted August 6, 2015 Share #180 Posted August 6, 2015 Funny, I have no troubles focusing. I don't guess. Good focusing takes a lot of practice but for those that don't want to take the time, then autofocus IS for you. All this is so not important. leica is going to do what leica is going to do. We are mere consumers. I just hope they aren't listening to the people who want the camera versions to give in to people who don't want to work at it. Don't worry, you will still be able to use the new camera completely manually, just like your beloved M. If you don't attach an AF lens, you won't even have the option of AF... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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