edwardkaraa Posted September 7, 2015 Share #761 Posted September 7, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Judging from reactions on other forums, I find it a bit counterproductive for Leica to keep tight lipped about this new system, if it is real that is. Many Leica R and M glass owners who use them on Sony bodies are buying the A7r2 and if more info was available about the new system camera, that would certainly keep the potential Leica clients from buying another camera. Leica seems to forget that it has no direct competition with the M, and they can release whatever they want, any time they want, and users don't mind. But if they are launching a new system in direct competition to Sony, they better improve their marketing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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pop Posted September 7, 2015 Share #762 Posted September 7, 2015 ...., I find it a bit counterproductive for Leica to keep tight lipped about this new system (...) , they better improve their marketing. Been there, done that. The M (Typ 240) was anounced several months before it reached the shelves. Do you remember how the forum was flooded with complaints about Leica's lack of ability to supply the market with a sufficient number of cameras months in advance of the anounced launch date? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted September 7, 2015 Share #763 Posted September 7, 2015 I'm not sure about Leica, but I do know other manufacturers who keep tight lipped - it's a much safer option. One, a paragliding manufacturer whose owner/designer is a perfectionist, got a design all the way through testing and was ready for production, and he pulled the pin and started again. It isn't finished until it's finished, and the best place to design, test and production test is in the company, and not in forums like this. It adds to the excitement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 7, 2015 Share #764 Posted September 7, 2015 [...] Leica seems to forget that it has no direct competition with the M, and they can release whatever they want, any time they want, and users don't mind. But if they are launching a new system in direct competition to Sony, they better improve their marketing. Not sure if marketing can do anything to this. Unless it has something special in the VF or elsewhere, a new EVIL would have the same problem as the T in my humble opinion. More expensive with no significant advantage over competition. A programmed failure in both cases i'm afraid but i hope to be proved wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted September 7, 2015 Share #765 Posted September 7, 2015 I'm assuming the new camera is the rumored interchangeable lens Q type. Of course if it is a new M there is no hurry whatsoever to announce it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkonkkrete Posted September 7, 2015 Share #766 Posted September 7, 2015 There's going to be a new M ... slimmer/lighter and possibly some other interesting updates (perhaps even substantial --- related to the viewfinder --- but we have to wait and see). Release date unclear, but announcement possibly this year. There's also going to be a new system camera with interchangeable AF lenses, but it's not going to be anything like a Q (except for the electronic viewfinder). It's going to be between the M and S in size, almost certainly styled to resemble an SLR although it is a mirrorless camera. It will have stunning high ISO performance, and the new lenses are going to have to be amazing to compete with the top-of-the-line Zeiss AF lenses on a Sony A7 lenses. It will take old R lenses, and possibly also M lenses (in manual mode). It'll be a lot more expensive than the Q. Announcement date possibly within the next week, but also possibly not until October. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 7, 2015 Share #767 Posted September 7, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) If it is between the M and S in size, the camera probably won't be able to take M lenses any more than an R camera could. I wonder what would keep it from eating into the S niche, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted September 7, 2015 Share #768 Posted September 7, 2015 Leica seems to forget that it has no direct competition with the M, and they can release whatever they want, any time they want, and users don't mind.. They can release what they want, until it no longer becomes an M. You forget that unlike other camera forums where people are constantly asking for more and more, there are a considerable number of M users (usually the silent ones, or should that be Typ Stille?) who ask for less. As such the day may arrive when an M is no longer and M, even if it is called an M. So as with the film cameras that have stopped evolving except in detail, I think this is the logical way for the M to go, a simple digital camera that gets a new sensor from time to time. Leave it for another camera in the Leica system to challenge Sony, if they can. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted September 7, 2015 Share #769 Posted September 7, 2015 They can release what they want, until it no longer becomes an M. You forget that unlike other camera forums where people are constantly asking for more and more, there are a considerable number of M users (usually the silent ones, or should that be Typ Stille?) who ask for less. As such the day may arrive when an M is no longer and M, even if it is called an M. So as with the film cameras that have stopped evolving except in detail, I think this is the logical way for the M to go, a simple digital camera that gets a new sensor from time to time. Leave it for another camera in the Leica system to challenge Sony, if they can. Steve I certainly agree, and I belong to this group of users who would like to see the M remain what it is, with improvements in the hardware performance, but not the design and features. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkonkkrete Posted September 7, 2015 Share #770 Posted September 7, 2015 If it is between the M and S in size, the camera probably won't be able to take M lenses any more than an R camera could. I wonder what would keep it from eating into the S niche, though. Well they are slashing S prices. S will still be their 'heavy duty' studio beast, with a >35mm ('medium format') sensor, whereas the new system camera will probably have a standard full frame sensor. Making the new system camera able to accept the M lenses via some kind of adaptor might help fight back against Sony, which can also take M lenses (some caveats on quality, especially for wider angles notwithstanding). I don't think M lenses will be 'native' on the new system: the emphasis will be on a new line of AF lenses. But enabling cross pollination for existing M users would be helpful: (e.g., 'I already have 4-5 M lenses and was thinking about getting a second body ... I was going to get the Sony, but now this other new Leica has come out, I'll get that instead'). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted September 7, 2015 Share #771 Posted September 7, 2015 They can release what they want, until it no longer becomes an M. You forget that unlike other camera forums where people are constantly asking for more and more, there are a considerable number of M users (usually the silent ones, or should that be Typ Stille?) who ask for less. As such the day may arrive when an M is no longer and M, even if it is called an M. So as with the film cameras that have stopped evolving except in detail, I think this is the logical way for the M to go, a simple digital camera that gets a new sensor from time to time. Leave it for another camera in the Leica system to challenge Sony, if they can. Steve I would love this, though having an ISO dial would make it complete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 7, 2015 Share #772 Posted September 7, 2015 Well they are slashing S prices. S will still be their 'heavy duty' studio beast, with a >35mm ('medium format') sensor, whereas the new system camera will probably have a standard full frame sensor. Making the new system camera able to accept the M lenses via some kind of adaptor might help fight back against Sony, which can also take M lenses (some caveats on quality, especially for wider angles notwithstanding). I don't think M lenses will be 'native' on the new system: the emphasis will be on a new line of AF lenses. But enabling cross pollination for existing M users would be helpful: (e.g., 'I already have 4-5 M lenses and was thinking about getting a second body ... I was going to get the Sony, but now this other new Leica has come out, I'll get that instead'). Yes - but if this is going to be a big camera the register distance is bound to be longer than the M one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted September 7, 2015 Share #773 Posted September 7, 2015 I'm assuming the new camera is the rumored interchangeable lens Q type. Of course if it is a new M there is no hurry whatsoever to announce it assume nothing There's going to be a new M ... slimmer/lighter and possibly some other interesting updates (perhaps even substantial --- related to the viewfinder --- but we have to wait and see). Release date unclear, but announcement possibly this year. sounds like my new years resolution, with enough vagueness to allow some get out I predict Leica will launch a new camera at some point in the future, which may or may not be based on a current model and which will cause all current Leica cameras to stop working, and or film cameras to start to misfeed film Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 7, 2015 Share #774 Posted September 7, 2015 assume nothing sounds like my new years resolution, with enough vagueness to allow some get out I predict Leica will launch a new camera at some point in the future, which may or may not be based on a current model and which will cause all current Leica cameras to stop working, and or film cameras to start to misfeed film I wouldn't want that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted September 7, 2015 Share #775 Posted September 7, 2015 assume nothing Really? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayewing Posted September 7, 2015 Share #776 Posted September 7, 2015 Yes - but if this is going to be a big camera the register distance is bound to be longer than the M one. But who is going to buy a bigger camera? If you want one the S is available. Sony have demonstrated that it is possible to produce a compact FF body. I suppose owners of R lenses might like a larger body but that would be a small number of potential customers. The demand as expressed on this forum is for a camera no larger (preferably smaller) than the M capable of accepting AF lenses and of using the existing M manual lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted September 7, 2015 Share #777 Posted September 7, 2015 Yes - but if this is going to be a big camera the register distance is bound to be longer than the M one. Even if the whole body was bigger - to increase the bajonet's diameter, the register distance must not necessarily be longer. And even if the distance was longer, they might remember the 16558-adapter which was used to fix a tiny lens-head to a larger opening of the bellows. The adapter shortened the distance. There would be no big problem to build an adapter like this - for Leica prices... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted September 7, 2015 Share #778 Posted September 7, 2015 But who is going to buy a bigger camera? If you want one the S is available. Sony have demonstrated that it is possible to produce a compact FF body. I suppose owners of R lenses might like a larger body but that would be a small number of potential customers. The demand as expressed on this forum is for a camera no larger (preferably smaller) than the M capable of accepting AF lenses and of using the existing M manual lenses. If you just look at the Forum, you'll find all sorts of demands expressed. Lenses with autofocus are bigger. With digital sensor it is sensible to design lenses with a large rear opening to ensure light rays to hit the sensor rectangularly (otherwise you'll always have the problems of "Italian-flags" and/or smeared edges). So we have to take bigger lenses into account - even if we prefer smaller ones. Bigger lenses need a bigger opening for the body's bayonet. This may lead to bigger bodies. If we'll really have a new Leica camera-system soon, this does not mean that all other Systems are dumped. There sitll will be the M- and the T-System for those who prefer it smaller.- Other Producers have many customers - inspite of their big cameras. Adaption of M-lenses will not be impossible if they offer a proper adapter. Though I am not sure, whether M-lenses with wide angles will show best results on a sensor which has not been designed for their special demands Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 7, 2015 Share #779 Posted September 7, 2015 [...] The demand as expressed on this forum is for a camera no larger (preferably smaller) than the M capable of accepting AF lenses and of using the existing M manual lenses. +1. There is the S for larger cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted September 7, 2015 Share #780 Posted September 7, 2015 They can release what they want, until it no longer becomes an M. You forget that unlike other camera forums where people are constantly asking for more and more, there are a considerable number of M users (usually the silent ones, or should that be Typ Stille?) who ask for less. As such the day may arrive when an M is no longer and M, even if it is called an M. So as with the film cameras that have stopped evolving except in detail, I think this is the logical way for the M to go, a simple digital camera that gets a new sensor from time to time. Leave it for another camera in the Leica system to challenge Sony, if they can. Steve A great YES! Elmar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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