-ph- Posted June 13, 2015 Share #121 Posted June 13, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I thought Leica is clever and takes the chance for the most compact EVIL camera system of the world: Q with interchangeble M-lenses. Even with an adapter for M, to realize an AF-mount in the new Q. The Q is a great stepp into the right direction. I would wait for the second step, but as Stefan Daniel mentioned, there is nothing scheduled for M-lenses..... IMHO a wrong decision. According to the quote from Andreas, the rangefinder will remain the keystone of the M system. I can quite believe that. He didn't say anything about a potential Q based camera taking M lenses. Even the T was introduced with an M lens adapter. So if the Q sells as well as it is positively reviewed at the moment, then Leica has to consider an interchangeable lens system based on the Q and that would most likely also adapt M lenses. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 Hi -ph-, Take a look here Is the new Q the future M-E. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted June 14, 2015 Share #122 Posted June 14, 2015 According to the quote from Andreas, the rangefinder will remain the keystone of the M system. I can quite believe that. He didn't say anything about a potential Q based camera taking M lenses. Even the T was introduced with an M lens adapter. So if the Q sells as well as it is positively reviewed at the moment, then Leica has to consider an interchangeable lens system based on the Q and that would most likely also adapt M lenses. Peter I think that the problem of the mount isn't so difficult to manage (Q seems to have one with larger diameter than M, so there can be the space for a mount with contacts for AF and an adapter for M) ; the main problem can be the SHUTTER... a component that is costly and, most of all, probably cannot be accomodated into the Q body ; but the fact that Q has also an electronic shutter makes me think that they are thinking seriously at this technology. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 14, 2015 Share #123 Posted June 14, 2015 Yes, Olympus is a great company, like Minolta was. Sony bought a great stake (10%) of Olympus in 2012. At that time Olympus had great problems. Meanwhile Sony sold half of the stake. It seems, this deal was a win-win situation. In addition Olympus has more to offer than only cameras (medical equipment), like Canon. But still Nikon and Canon are the big two. I thought Leica is clever and takes the chance for the most compact EVIL camera system of the world: Q with interchangeble M-lenses. Even with an adapter for M, to realize an AF-mount in the new Q. The Q is a great stepp into the right direction. I would wait for the second step, but as Stefan Daniel mentioned, there is nothing scheduled for M-lenses..... IMHO a wrong decision. Martin There are two messages here, Martin. The first that the M lenses are for M cameras, and the second is that Leica will expand into AF lenses (as they are doing - they have the fixed lens X & Q cameras and the S & T mount cameras, all AF). My pick is the T mount, with full frame T mount AF lenses for a Q based camera, and M & R adapters. The Q will become more refined, and its lenses will become best in class - they will be bigger, but that goes with the territory. The M will remain what it is, with further evolution as it has over the past. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 14, 2015 Share #124 Posted June 14, 2015 Yes but... Sony sales are growing in that particular niche... http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-says-their-premium-cameras-sales-are-raising/ But it's a shrinking niche. How long can they sustain it, that's the question. SLR cameras still sell many times more. There must be a reason for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 15, 2015 Share #125 Posted June 15, 2015 But it's a shrinking niche. How long can they sustain it, that's the question. SLR cameras still sell many times more. There must be a reason for that. Hi James, Can you provide some authority for this statement? It's very surprising, given that everything I've read to date suggests that SLRs are in trouble, and mirrorless is a growing market segment. The A7 camera system - full frame mirrorless - doesn't seem to be suffering ... Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ph- Posted June 15, 2015 Share #126 Posted June 15, 2015 I think that the problem of the mount isn't so difficult to manage (Q seems to have one with larger diameter than M, so there can be the space for a mount with contacts for AF and an adapter for M) ; the main problem can be the SHUTTER... a component that is costly and, most of all, probably cannot be accomodated into the Q body ; but the fact that Q has also an electronic shutter makes me think that they are thinking seriously at this technology. Well, the T has a shutter and is much thinner than the Q, the Sony A7 manages to fit a shutter in a body with a flange distance of 18mm. Looking into my M9 shows, that the shutter is set back almost 2 cm from the mount. If not for the rangefinder pick up, even the M could be thinner than the Q is right now, if the mount itself is allowed to stick a bit out. But I agree, the Q sensor hints at progress with an electronic shutter, so future (possible non-fixed-lens) iterations might do without a physical shutter all together. Also, the more powerful the electronic shutter gets, the easier the requirements on the mechanical shutter. Perhaps a future M brings back the cloth shutter, if short exposures can be done electronically? Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 15, 2015 Share #127 Posted June 15, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) My pick is the T mount, with full frame T mount AF lenses for a Q based camera, and M & R adapters. The Q will become more refined, and its lenses will become best in class - they will be bigger, but that goes with the territory. The M will remain what it is, with further evolution as it has over the past. Cheers John This makes a lot of sense and is exactly what Sony did with the E mount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 15, 2015 Share #128 Posted June 15, 2015 Hi James, Can you provide some authority for this statement? It's very surprising, given that everything I've read to date suggests that SLRs are in trouble, and mirrorless is a growing market segment. The A7 camera system - full frame mirrorless - doesn't seem to be suffering ... Cheers John CIPA stats only separated out ILC's since 2012. 2012 - total cameras 100M, 17M SLR, 4M ILC 2013 - total cameras, 61M, 14M SLR, 3M ILC 2014 - total cameras 43M, 10M SLR, 3M ILC 2015 - ytd total cameras 10M, 3M SLR, 850K ILC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted June 15, 2015 Share #129 Posted June 15, 2015 Nope, Sony is just entering the profitable high end scene with full-frame EVF-cameras like alpha 7 r/s. Canon and Nikon still stick to their old fashioned SLR's. The high end market is profitable. The mass market of pocket cameras with sensors sizes less than 4/3 dies. These customers take their smartphones instead. By the way: Sony is meanwhile the world leading sensor manufacturer. Compared to RAM-Chips, the CMOS chips are difficult to produce. This know-how is a key feature for digital cameras. I believe only 3 companies may survive (Nikon, Canon, Sony), and of course Leica! Martin You forgot to mention Fuji, they are a huge company, personally it's a matter of time for dear old Leica. Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernie.lcf Posted June 17, 2015 Share #130 Posted June 17, 2015 You forgot to mention Fuji, they are a huge company, personally it's a matter of time for dear old Leica. If we take the 2014 numbers (available for both Leica and Fuji), then Leica has increased revenues by 6% to 280 million while increasing profitability accordingly. Fujis imaging division makes a lot more money and has seen 8% increase in revenues. However, the imaging division is not just cameras and it is the cameras that are increasingly in trouble. The camera division (electronic imaging - only about 25% of the total imaging division) has seen a decline despite of good sales of the X series cameras. In terms of mirrorless market share in Japan, the top three are Sony, followed by Olympus and Panasonic.Panasonic has 11.9% - so, Fuji, is less than that. Leica is a profitable camera and no longer public. If they can sustain this performance, there are here to stay even though they ill continue to server a niche. For Fuji, the camera division is not their only line of business - it is actually rather small (when compared) and there might well be a strategic decision one day that this is simply not worth the effort. Unlike Leica (and Nikon) who focus on photography only, Fuji can afford to shutdown this division with (apparently) no big impact on their overall figures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted June 17, 2015 Share #131 Posted June 17, 2015 If we take the 2014 numbers (available for both Leica and Fuji), then Leica has increased revenues by 6% to 280 million while increasing profitability accordingly. Fujis imaging division makes a lot more money and has seen 8% increase in revenues. However, the imaging division is not just cameras and it is the cameras that are increasingly in trouble. The camera division (electronic imaging - only about 25% of the total imaging division) has seen a decline despite of good sales of the X series cameras. In terms of mirrorless market share in Japan, the top three are Sony, followed by Olympus and Panasonic.Panasonic has 11.9% - so, Fuji, is less than that. Leica is a profitable camera and no longer public. If they can sustain this performance, there are here to stay even though they ill continue to server a niche. For Fuji, the camera division is not their only line of business - it is actually rather small (when compared) and there might well be a strategic decision one day that this is simply not worth the effort. Unlike Leica (and Nikon) who focus on photography only, Fuji can afford to shutdown this division with (apparently) no big impact on their overall figures. Thanks for the figures Bernie, as I said, Fuji is a big company. Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vip Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share #132 Posted June 17, 2015 M is a great system! This does not mean that Leica can not produce a sister camera that can use AF lens and M lens on full frame sensor with EVF with benefit for both: Optical project can be very similar, no greater cost, enrolling and educate new type of customers on the same optical quality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted June 17, 2015 Share #133 Posted June 17, 2015 it will be good to get a M with options : with or without RF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vip Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share #134 Posted September 24, 2015 Whaooo! Few days ago Leica has registered a new name SL. Has been announced an historical event at Wetzlar. Everything turn around a Q with a a different shape to host a EVF . My prediction does not look now so wrong now ..... Even if company ( as frequently before) has denied everithing. Did you remember my old post about the first X' predicting a new model with a Zoom? I was considered a mad boy....Before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 24, 2015 Share #135 Posted September 24, 2015 Not sure if the "SL" will ever be the "future M-E". The next M-E should still be a rangefinder which could be based on the M240. Just a guess though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodParticle/Hari Posted September 25, 2015 Share #136 Posted September 25, 2015 I met with Oliver Kaltner a few days ago and he was crystal clear - "the M is and will remain pure. We won't touch it. Like the 911." In his own words. The new AF FF camera is not a rumor anymore and a few features may well trickle back and forth between the new offerings and the M, which is not a bad thing. My personal take - there won't be a M without an OVF or atleast a hybrid VF of some kind but I don't think we'll see a pure EVF M version. Then again, never say never - maybe a special EVF only limited edition Terminator M? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 25, 2015 Share #137 Posted September 25, 2015 The launch of a new EVIL is the best evidence that the M will remain a rangefinder IMHO. What kind or rangefinder is another question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 25, 2015 Share #138 Posted September 25, 2015 I met with Oliver Kaltner a few days ago and he was crystal clear - "the M is and will remain pure. We won't touch it. Like the 911." In his own words. The new AF FF camera is not a rumor anymore and a few features may well trickle back and forth between the new offerings and the M, which is not a bad thing. My personal take - there won't be a M without an OVF or atleast a hybrid VF of some kind but I don't think we'll see a pure EVF M version. Then again, never say never - maybe a special EVF only limited edition Terminator M? Ever compared an original 911 with a 2015 one? Pure? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vip Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share #139 Posted September 25, 2015 Regardless if from Q it will Be a future ME or a mirrorless system as I said "I see that many new customer can be conquered by a Q alike ( in M system)." The Q was an exploring camera for something much more important Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodParticle/Hari Posted September 25, 2015 Share #140 Posted September 25, 2015 Ever compared an original 911 with a 2015 one? Pure? Not my words mate, I quoted what the man said Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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