FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 13, 2014 Share #21 Posted October 13, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think in the case of the frame lever, Leica is correcting a mistake. Believe me, the next model will have it. ( ... that is , I hope they are smart enough to not remove it again.) The frame lever on the type 240-P is far less useful than the M9 because you have to turn the 240 on first. I just see two upgrade cycles. M to M and M-P to M-P. Both are about 4 yrs apart. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 Hi FlashGordonPhotography, Take a look here M-P, repeating the "upgrade" scenario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
viramati Posted October 13, 2014 Share #22 Posted October 13, 2014 I see little point in this upgrade as it really doesn't add anything in the way of useful functional or durability issues. I did upgrade my original Grey paint M9 to the chrome as the paint wore off really easily and the sapphire glass was more durable. When I came to sell it alongside my black paint M9 I think I got about another 500-600 ponds for it so on the whole I felt it was not a total loss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 13, 2014 Share #23 Posted October 13, 2014 More like milch cows, because if the 'red dot' is so unpopular that they themselves think it is an 'upgrade' to get rid of it they could cut production costs and end user price and leave it off in the first place couldn't they? And it isn't a transparent case of selling a new camera to fill the coffers because 9 times out of 10 there will be a 'low use' second hand original version hitting the market to compensate, and that diverts new users away from buying new cameras. Steve You mean Leica customers are mindless and unable to decide for themselves which camera they want? The changes are clearly stated, the price is clear, the only milch cow factor is the mind of the customer... Speak for yourself, I make my own decisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 13, 2014 Share #24 Posted October 13, 2014 You mean Leica customers are mindless and unable to decide for themselves which camera they want? If Leica customers could decide for themselves which camera they want they will pretty well all say they want the 'professional' version from day one, which don't you think makes them anything but mindless? And this is nothing to do with Leica beavering away for two years trying to invent a crystal screen for the M, or two years where they carefully analyse customer reactions to a red dot, because it's all been designed and analysed before. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted October 13, 2014 Share #25 Posted October 13, 2014 Is the M-P more professional, than the M ? In what way? The M is already watertight. The extra 2Gb? If you want a "professional" speed, you would take a Nikon D4. Leica never was very fast, but that was never an argument not to call the M3,4,6 P 's professional. The M9 had some issues in this way, but I thought that the M 240 was designed to be a professional camera. Omitting the red dot does not make it more professional. if this was true, other brands would have hide their brand names too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted October 13, 2014 Share #26 Posted October 13, 2014 It really is all kinda childish by Leica. Sure they need to make money and that's not always easy when you have a 4 year cycle before really updating the M. I just wish they would find some other way than the "no you can't have the camera you want just yet, because I will try to sell it to you 2 years from now... And whether Leica customers are able to make up their own minds is besides the point as this is about how childish and really kinda insulting Leica treats its customers and less about what our response is. Anyway, I'm glad the M-P looks kinda ugly to me as I would have disliked having to decide between actually rewarding Leica's childishness by giving them more money or not getting the camera I wanted in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 14, 2014 Share #27 Posted October 14, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) You all know it's not just Leica, right? I have a 2011 Landrover Discovery 4. The 2014 version of the same car has different badges, different interior and an extra gear. I'm not upset. I bought the car because what they offered was what I wanted. Not what it might have been in the future. Same with the M240 and M-P. I bought the original because it had what I wanted when I bought it. It still has those things. I also have a M-P. The differences are not huge. I haven't scratched either screen. I don't hit either buffer. Both cameras make me money. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 14, 2014 Share #28 Posted October 14, 2014 It's not childish by Leica. It childish to have loads of discussions on very minor changes. The P models are cosmetic changes 1/2 to 2/3s through a digital Ms life cycle. So what, get over it, buy or not up to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted October 14, 2014 Share #29 Posted October 14, 2014 Leica should give us an a-la-carte program for the M-P. That's how they could seriously milk my tit for a bit of extra cash... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 14, 2014 Share #30 Posted October 14, 2014 Why would Leica do otherwise than what they've always done with success? The larger buffer is a welcome upgrade the same way as new frame lines were for the M8.2. Leica will keep the larger buffer in the next M hopefully. In the meantime, the M-P will possibly be the last classical rangefinder ever made and could become a collectors from this viewpoint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 14, 2014 Share #31 Posted October 14, 2014 Leica should give us an a-la-carte program for the M-P.That's how they could seriously milk my tit for a bit of extra cash... Yes, you could order it with a red dot and without the frame lever. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 14, 2014 Share #32 Posted October 14, 2014 If Leica customers could decide for themselves which camera they want they will pretty well all say they want the 'professional' version from day one, which don't you think makes them anything but mindless? And this is nothing to do with Leica beavering away for two years trying to invent a crystal screen for the M, or two years where they carefully analyse customer reactions to a red dot, because it's all been designed and analysed before. Steve The marketing strategy is thought out years before. The aim is to sell cameras, what else? I am sure there have been things saved for the next iteration of the M. If somebody feels led by the nose, it is because they let it happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 14, 2014 Share #33 Posted October 14, 2014 If somebody feels led by the nose, it is because they let it happen. Moderator moderate thyself and stop insulting people. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 14, 2014 Share #34 Posted October 14, 2014 If Leica customers could decide for themselves which camera they want they will pretty well all say they want the 'professional' version from day one, which don't you think makes them anything but mindless? For one thing there is no ‘professional’ version of the M. And as far as I’m concerned I wouldn’t pay 500 Euro more for an M-P if given the choice. The larger buffer and the sapphire screen are certainly nice, but non-essential for me, I don’t care about the frame selector lever (actually I think the front looks less cluttered without the lever), and the red dot is just fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted October 14, 2014 Share #35 Posted October 14, 2014 For one thing there is no ‘professional’ version of the M. And as far as I’m concerned I wouldn’t pay 500 Euro more for an M-P if given the choice. The larger buffer and the sapphire screen are certainly nice, but non-essential for me, I don’t care about the frame selector lever (actually I think the front looks less cluttered without the lever), and the red dot is just fine. I think of it in reverse. There is no amateur, hobbyist or enthusiast version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 14, 2014 Share #36 Posted October 14, 2014 For one thing there is no ‘professional’ version of the M. And as far as I’m concerned I wouldn’t pay 500 Euro more for an M-P if given the choice. The larger buffer and the sapphire screen are certainly nice, but non-essential for me, I don’t care about the frame selector lever (actually I think the front looks less cluttered without the lever), and the red dot is just fine. I think you miss the point. Leica are selling it as an 'upgrade' irrespective of it's actual usefulness above and beyond the original camera. Deny they are making a point about a scratch proof screen, deny they imply it is more 'stealthy' without the logo (LOL). So if this is an 'upgrade' and not just a cynical re-boot lets have it from new, not two years on. How about this for a simple idea. Sell the full spec version from day one, then after two years when sales are flagging do a simple version, like the M-E was to the M9? And when a genuine upgrade is available, rather than things that have been held back to look like 'upgrades', they can call it something else, even 'P' if as you say 'P' doesn't stand for 'professional'. Steve Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 14, 2014 Share #37 Posted October 14, 2014 [...] Sell the full spec version from day one [...] And ask for 500 € more from day one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 14, 2014 Share #38 Posted October 14, 2014 And ask for 500 € more from day one? So trading in your original camera, and the loss of 1500 Euro, plus the 'upgrade' cost, to get the 'upgraded' version beats spending 500 Euro in the first place? Ok you'll need to explain that to me in more detail because whichever way I look at it I don't see the benefit. This is the cycle Leica have created, anybody wanting to get a scratch free screen and no logo and in this case a bigger buffer and they spend another 2000 Euro, and this was all within the control of Leica from day one. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 14, 2014 Share #39 Posted October 14, 2014 Remember when the M240 was launched we (at least some of us) were surprised at its price being "only" 600 or 700 € more than that of the M9, ie. about 200 or 300 € more than the M9P's. How much more would we have had to pay to get the M-P from day one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 14, 2014 Share #40 Posted October 14, 2014 Moderator moderate thyself and stop insulting people. Steve You mean you feel that way then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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